Actually having founded/run rabble (a new player group) I disagree. The area of space didn’t affect player retention. People stuck around because
Without tooting my own horn too much I know how to find pvp and make it fun.
We built a fun community that people looked forward to finishing work and logging in to.
When I lost sight of making pvp fun and stopped weeding in favor of numbers we actually lost numbers and people quit. Highsec was actually our best time hands down followed closely by delve.
Oh, don’t get me wrong, when I say “highsec” then what I mean by that is actually “sticking in highsec as a solo pilot and playing like a risk-averse carebear”.
Of course you can also find a great corp in highsec and find interesting content - but that’s not how most of the highsec players operate.
If you move to null or (to a slightly lesser degree) lowsec then you will automatically start working together with other people for survivals sake and that’s when the game starts becoming interesting.
Many new players make the mistake of sticking to highsec, doing boring things in pointless corps (or solo), all the while trying to become “ready” for the actual game and then burn out before they ever feel ready. Or at least, that’s the newbie-trap that most of my RL acquaintances who tried EVE fell into.
Some of the responses here are just complete ■■■■■■■■, it clearly shows that some of you have no idea how to play or you can’t be bothered to listen to or learn from people that do know how to fight overwhelming odds.
Take the example of a Neut RR helping a war decker in a pvp engagement… Why does it seem like no ones even bothered to even counter this? all it takes is a super fast ship to approach and he will just fly off, if youre good you can pin him down and get a warp in. Neut RR is actually one of the oldest tricks in the book and quite frankly im shocked that people cant organise a fleet to counter neut RR. or is that too much work for you?
I get a strong sense that too many of you think “if the fight isn’t easy I’m not going to bother playing”
Also, I am damn proud of my killboard. this is the killboard of a realist, I enjoy the game even when I lose ships.
One has to take Eve exactly as they find it. This really is a unique game and even veterans would still be surprised at what can be achieved in regards to pvp.
The best advice I can give is expand yourself socially on this game and try to hook up with people who are enthusiastic, adventurous, and content with how the mechanics of Eve work. Really try to steer yourself away from people who constantly moan about Eve, you’ll just end up as negative as they are and find yourself repeating their negative rubbish to anyone who will listen.
The blanket war deccers are not invulnerable this is a fact, you just need to know how to fight them.
People do know how to organise, I recognise it is a 2 way street. An organiser needs people to listen. The problem could be that lots of people are reluctant to listen.
When an organiser steps up there are normally lots of people ready to go to the ends of the earth to criticise and ridicule anything they do. For some reason lots of people are drawn to negativity. These people are so desperate to get others to see their negative view and then everything falls apart.
Okay I’ve just spent the last couple hours listening to this and here’s are some good arguments about both sides CCP take some time to listen to this then form your opinion and do something about it I challenge you to change in the next 2 months
Aaron the comment about neutral RR was based on being part of the Discord group that are talking about hisec war decs, which is mainly made up of war deckers.
I do in fact agree with you that the current system of neutral RR apart from the inability for allies in a war to rep each other is spot on, but the issue is that hisec is in a bad way in terms of people bothering or wanting to fight, which you then correctly take a shot at, in fact we are pretty much in agreement. One of the guys who wants it made criminal is a seasoned war decker by the way.
My own view is that it is fine as it is, but it does mean that people are reluctant to go after the pipe campers for example in sort of let me take this fight attitude, because in comes the RR and that’s it, however it is an attitude and needs to change. In my view they should just do it and see what happens, but they have to organise people as you said, but I was merely suggesting that we do as he suggested for a period to see how it develops. It is however just one of a number of things that need adjustment or tinkering with, to make people willing to step up and fight.
I think it is more like why give them an easy kill, because when you go after something of a blanket war decker they are often blinged up so you have to go for it with something meaningful, or a large number, and if you use the latter they get safe and dock up.
Your killboard is fine, as I said before you took fights to get kills and you were always fighting out-numbered, which is why I had a lot of respect for you as a small gang FC.
I don’t like the way you talk. I could have been much more than this as you saw on my very first large fleet battle FC’ing for SAS alliance. You omit many things.
Nothing can really be adjusted to make people want to fight blanket war deccers, The desire to fight or learn to fight simply must come from the players. There seems to be a psychological barrier in place here and many people including yourself drac are only prepared to go so far in your gameplay.
I have been a newbro, and being in a war decced corp has never really bothered me. What did bother me is the people around me losing the willingness to fight because it wasnt easy. Eve is and always will be a battle of the minds, those who are able to look at whats going on and adapt will do well in this game.
There’s a question about balance as well as the “psychological barrier”, if something gets to overpowered it can seem impossible to defeat it.
I also feel things need to change, I may not have the same views on things than Drac. But we agree on certain things.
Give me my watchlist back and remove neutral logi then I’ll fight blanket deccer’s
Without it its a monumental task keeping my guys with enough content to not be bored or burned out. (not fun)
Well the “psychological barrier” trumps everything in this war dec issue. My reasoning is that people can earn perfectly well being in an NPC corp with hardly any bother as long as they are fitted well and haven’t spent billions fitting out their ship, this is a fact that nobody can dispute in any shape or form.
Too many of you are conned into a sense that you must be in a player corp to play the game. this is a false belief designed to get you in a position to PVP consensual or not. One must free themselves from these beliefs and move forward.
I am going to take a very firm stance on this as it is people that is the problem with Eve. You were given 3 character slots for this exact reason, why not have one character in a pvp corp with your friends and you just use cheap frigs and cruisers to have pvp fun and learn pvp carefully, and then have another character in an NPC corp grinding missions with your buddies with no bother?
Also, why can’t you just make whatever pvp you do aimed at killing their neut logi and nothing more? to constantly lose logi can be expensive.
Not many people will share my view which im cool with, all im saying is dont blame Eve or it’s mechanics when it is actually you who refuses to adapt your game play.
Edit: we even have the ability to buy and inject skillpoints, so one could have a high skilled missioning alt at the click of their fingers and people are still complaining.
I know this forum is ■■■■■■ up and hard to know affiliations when you talk with people, so I’ll let it go.
While I agree with you that people can just choose npc corp is they dont want to fight.
But can you tell me how someone smaller than the force their fighting can take precautions for neutral logi and other friends?
If I went with my 5 guys to kill Vendetta’s 5 guys, I would have to assume (because I cant know) they have at least 1-2 neutral logi per person.
So that would mean I need more guys. right? If I come with 15 guys to fight those 5 guys will dock up.
If I have logi in-house fighting a group with neutral logi, and need to kill one of their logi to be able to break their reps… my logi also goes suspect.
I’m not saying its impossible to fight back, its just very hard work if your smaller than them.
Before you say it, I will not become a blanket deccer to have enough content to fight other blanket deccers.
And with your edit: you also can change out your neutral logi if its to well known.
I don’t even think this has something to do with blanket war deccers or any currently existing game mechanic.
Because the complaints, the jumping of corps, the logouts for a week and complete lack of will to show any opposition at all is even happening when a one man corp without any neutral logistic or backup is wardecing them. And I’m sure most of them are not even aware of neutral logis as a possible issue, because they simply have no clue about wardecs and everyone just tells them to hide instead of helping to understand how the game works.
Hell I had even the case when THEI where wardecing me and then they started to hide and complain that they are just indi players and can’t possibly fight me. They probebly thought I would not login for a week like they handle wardecs or something.
Actually the only wars I had so far that had any real fighting going on was when some carebears tried to make some system their home. Then you have a winning condition by making them leave or block their activity in the system and they will hopefully try to stay around for a few days and not just scatter 30j all around highsec.
When I was a noob, I have talked ■■■■ against DuckEye in minmatar chat. The consequential wardec and killing taught me to be respectful to those I can not beat yet, and I have taught this lesson to several others throughout my time in EVE. Those who can not evolve are destined to die and vanish. Evolution and natural selection, ■■■■ yeah!
I never thought I would do this… I think you have the wrong impression of Drac.
So Aaron, since I share some of Drac views on things, do you think I also “think it’s wrong to shoot people” in FPS?
And you did not answer my last post to you btw.
I have the wrong impression of Drac? I know the man very well as we have done lots in the game together. I have known Drac since he was a newbro. In fact I know him better than everyone else. When I created an alliance for him he trusted me enough to give me full access to his corp.
I find his perspective very negative and it is very difficult to be encouraged by Drac in certain circumstances. And he will go out of his way to impose his negative views on you, If you don’t fully agree with him he will fall out with you badly and then make sure everyone you are associated with has a negative view of you.
LOL, people are here trying to tell me what I know now? You’re Shitting me, Give me a break.
