Left because of wardec

Into last word mode now with imaginary salt, how quaint…

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no…

I was being sarcastic mate.

So… did OP return with the WarDec changes?

interesting question, I’d also like to know how the new system is going, are those that claimed to have left because of pvp / wardecs returning?

it won’t matter, i’ll give it a year maybe less before the same people are on here screaming and demanding the right to be able to own structures also, make EVE safer for their play style is what they want.

such stupid nonsense, people joining a game that’s all about PVP and then they whine about it instead of asking for help, they waste all their energy talking bollox about it, just think of how good you could be if you put the same effort into learning the game.

refusal to learn anything is at the core of this issue, I’m playing this game a long time now and i’e never had the issues these people claim to have, why? because i made friends and listened to advice and learned how to play the game.

during this videos https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tguNL2UENiY&t=2s

i heard pilots are still getting killed because they didn’t know they where at war, didn’t know what a war meant, couldn’t care until they got attacked, or the very bottom of the barrel, in a corp where the CEO knows less than they do and doesn’t inform or teach their members anything.
after all these years nothing much has changed, there are those that want to play the game and learn how to and those that want to change it into something it can’t be and couldn’t care if the change kills the game.

EVE is just a game and the sooner you get over that fact the better, you will get blown up, you will have ups and downs, great times and terrible times, this is what makes EVE the beautiful beast that she is.
not many games can claim to have lasted as long as EVE, it’s is not half as bad as some make it out to be, it would never have lasted this long if it was.

A year? I saw at least one post before these idiotic changes even went live wanting corps to be a minimum size to be war dec eligible.

I wished people would stop using “playstyles” where there are none. It is the carebears who invented the playstyle fallacy.

Fact of the matter is that there are no different playstyles. There are only activities. Acivities like ganking, mining, mission running. Some do this, some do that. PvErs in general only do PvE, while PvPers usually do both. It’s not seperated in “playstyles”. They’ve invented this nonsense and as usual enough people picked up on it, helping them by spreading their nonsense without ever thinking it through.

The reason they come up with this, is because they isolate themselves and everyone else from everything else. It’s an invention by the wannabe individualistic, who see themselves as completely seperated from everyone else, including the world they play in (or live in, if you want to go that far).

They have no sense for community or “the whole”. That’s why they seperate the game into zones (high should be a no-pvp zone), that’s why they can’t accept that “being pvp’d everywhere” is part of the game as a whole, that’s why they are incapable of understanding that they have no right to be seen as someone who is independent from the rest of the game world.

Please stop using carebear created fallacies.

Thank you.

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Still early days, but so far there is no indication that players are returning, nor that new players are staying anymore than they already were.

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playstyle, activity, call it what you want. :slight_smile:

It is 5pm here in the UK and there are 27,163 pilots logged in. Login numbers seem to be increasing, the wardec change may have helped these numbers.

Now we just need some amazing, never seen before, epic, uber, sweet like honey bonuses for structures to get a level of PVP going in hi sec.

I hope that structures are designed in a way that makes every pilot in Eve wet themselves when they review the bonuses.

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Eve offline is showing a downward trend.

6m=>3m=>1m=>2w average going down.

http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility

Just to add: there is better metrics than Deaths by Country. I’ve seen the statistics where Russians destroyed something about 70-80% (or even more) of German military forces. I think this is better to use.

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Nice! Thanks for letting me know, I’ll look into this for next time!

Why do you always have to turn every and all subjects into a “for the good of society” matter?

Different playstyles do exist, simply because people with different circumstances exist, someone in University won’t have the same play pattern as someone working 9/5, same with age, someone in its 15s won’t engage in the same activities as someone 65s, and there are many more factors.

It’s a matter of individuals, community plays a role in this, but only to serve those individuals, if you don’t offer the playstyles and communities they want, or offer the tools to create those, they will leave, that simple.

Aka, carebears also matter.

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Different “playstyles” exist of course, but they are all layered on a virtual world game that CCP is trying to create, one which has a core tenet that there are no safe spaces, death matters, and we all can influence and interact with each other. Therefore a “playstyle” that self-defines as ‘PvP-free’ is not legitimate nor compatible with the core idea of the game.

No one gets to decide they want to opt-in to some of the virtual world, like say influencing and playing in the shared economy, but not other ones, like say the spaceship combat that is the basis of that economy. Similarly, no one can demand that they get an infinite ships respawn because they only like the pew pew, but don’t have time for that whole economic game. Such ‘playstyles’ that claim that right are false, and really just selfish demands of people asking for the game to be changed to cater to their expectations.

So no, carebears don’t matter, at least in my definition of players that want immunity from other players while retaining the ability to influences the others. These players seek to have the competitive game rewritten so they can’t lose, or changed entirely into an impossible-to-lose farming simulator. They can’t be made happy without violating the basic premise of the game, so they need to be ignored. They are literally like vegans that walk into a steakhouse acting bewildered when management rejects their demands to eliminate all meat products from the menu.

Now, if you use ‘carebear’ to mean ‘industrialists’, then they absolutely matter. In fact, that group of players have been hit the hardest by CCP development focus on making Eve more accessible, making losses hurt less, and shifting focus to less competitive, more “fun” game. All this wealth and safety CCP has managed to inject into the game in the last years has undermined the meaning of their efforts. If anything, CCP has neglected them for too long catering to the easy/meaningless pew pew crowd and the game is suffering for it. Turns out, Eve is only a slightly entertaining fleet combat simulator, whereas when there was more meaning and stakes involved in the fights, the game was more active, engaging and popular.

Honestly, there is no long-term place for the majority of the ‘hate-PvP’ crowd. CCP will never be able to soften the game to suit their palate, and every time they try they erode the core game for both builders and destroyers who want to compete. That’s not to say there can’t be safer spaces in New Eden where both the risks and rewards are low to cater more to casuals, new and small group/solo players, but there is a primordial gap between the full-time PvP Battle Royale game CCP set out to build, and the expectations of total control and safety the true carebear craves. This can never be bridged, at least not without completely destroying (or best case, fundamentally transforming) the game.

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This is a very reductionist view on the sandbox.

I largely prefer PvP, the Abyss is the only thing that made me care about NPCs, outside of that I’d rather be hunting human players. So I’m not trying to go against more PvP in the game.
The problem is, you are reducing the vision of EVE to one of its aspects, if the game was only about PvP, there would be no such things as High-Sec incursions, Explorations, and Mining. Everything would be fought for, and some space magic or mail system would deliver the rewards to the winner.

This is not a core tenet of EVE, might be in the initial papers, but like everything those change and adapt.

What made the strength of EVE is a space where people are free to create systems and interactions through Creation AND Destruction. It’s not just a PvP game, a lending system can exist in this game, RvB can exist in this game, the various hoax and corp theft can exist, Empire building can exist in this game.

That tenet of “EVE is a PvP game” goes against that, it’s more than that.

If giving a no-PvP space for some people is what it takes to get more players into that vision, then I would happily sacrifice this PvP tenet. What the game needs is more interactions, if a large part of those are PvP then good, if not that’s far from a problem.

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A good post that’ll be mainly wasted on the crowd that posts in here that can’t shake that pvp tunnel vision they have, because nothing else can exist in the game in their vision of EVE.

Now just wait for the everything is pvp posts where they refuse to accept the classical meaning of player versus player.

There’s a reason CCP is starting to go with providing some safety in the game…it won’t stop ganking, but stopping meaningless wardecs is a good start.

I never said it was only about PvP. I specifically said it is a living, virtual world attempt (AKA a sandbox) where not just fighting, but gathering, building, and trading were a key part of the design. It is like a large, multiplayer persistent version of Starcraft where your success is determined by how well you collect, build and fight, with the added diplomatic layer on top.

So PvE, mining, industry are all fundamental aspects of the game and it wouldn’t work without them. But the same can be said for PvP which provides not only core content, but the ultimate meaning for these things. It’s a single giant open-world Battle Royale arena and such a concept doesn’t support real safe spaces.

Yup, 100%. It is not just a PvP game, but it is fundamentally a PvP game. If you want to do other things in that PvP context other than direct PvP, and that is entirely intended and a large part of the success of the game. But you cannot remove the PvP part as your true carebear will bleat for. The creative and cooperative bits are very important to this game and it wouldn’t work without it, but the same is true for the competitive aspects.

I don’t see how. Eve is a PvP game. It was conceived as that, sold as that, described as that by the builders, and objectively is that given there is no significant PvP-free part of the game. Eve can be more than PvP, and is for sure, but that doesn’t mean at its core it isn’t a PvP game. That isn’t something to be ashamed of or try to weasel around like you are, but rather celebrated.

Just as you can mine copper nodes (i.e. do PvE) on a PvP WoW server, that doesn’t mean it isn’t still a PvP WoW server. The PvP designation is an accurate description of the gameplay that goes on on that server, just like calling Eve a PvP game is completely accurate. Eve has only one server/universe and it is a PvP one, but one that offers many more types of gameplay on top of that core PvP ruleset.

This is the nub of the whole thing. Having a PvP-free space that is economically linked to the greater game really is an impossibility. So you have set up a zero sum game here with your choice since there is only one server - you either throw out the fundamental PvP sandbox nature of the game to make a PvP-free space for loss-averse carebears, or you keep it as-is, PvP everywhere and preserve the existing economic and PvP gameplay. If you like the current Eve you are going to be vehemently against your proposal, and if you don’t like the current Eve and want it to be something else, you will be for gutting the competitive bit of the game. There is no possibility of compromise here - the best solution I see would be some sort of schism and creation of a second PvE server that doesn’t interact economically, but that is bad for several other reasons and isn’t going to happen.

But to your reasoning, I see no evidence a PvP-free version of Eve lacking the competitive bits and the vibrant economy has much appeal. CCP has spent years trying to soften Eve and make it less harsh and the carebears have not come. Sure, you can always argue it wasn’t enough, but I find it very hard to believe a game they started coding 20-years ago, even with the impressive graphical updates they have kept up with, would have any appeal for the PvE themepark crowd without the meaning a PvP environment gives to virtual items.

The hypocrisy of the carebear is that most of them derive meaning and satisfaction for playing from the goods they collect and produce that is given value by the PvP universe, and they aren’t going to show up to an empty server or a server where their loot and goods have no value. If you want to run Eve’s PvE content in complete safety you can already do so on the test server, but almost none of them do because they like the fact people will give them ISK, or even PLEX, for their efforts, something that wouldn’t happen on a PvP-free server.

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One of the core gameplay of the game, the Market, shows that there can be Competition without Spaceship Violence PvP.

A no-PvP safe zone could still have Competition, Systems, and more importantly the Creation and Destruction aspect of the game while giving a zone where those who would be interested in creating something there could go and be a part of the game. You can still have the competitive bits and vibrant economy while catering to a population that could help grow the game.

People who lived in FW did not have to do the whole Empire-building thing to be a part of EVE, in the same way, the people who would live in that zone would not have to do the Spaceship Violence thing to be a part of EVE.

The carebears can also participate in the Creation and Destruction process, this only asks for them to be given the proper systems and tools to do so. Even an activity as isolated as Abyssal deadspace is connected to the overall EVE universe by being a massive material sink.

You don’t want to see a compromise, but me I see one. A space that would have its own goals, priorities, and process, and still be a part of the EVE cluster, the same way Null, WH, and Low are. No need for a second server.

And you refuse to accept that PVP is not limited to combat.

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