Out of curiosity:
What was ■■■■■■ up about crimewatch that caused people to not want to fight (based on context) wars?
2 Likes
I don’t get it either, looking forward to find out what he means.
1 Like
In 2012, when they did the rewamp of both wars and crimewatch they intentionally left in that allies get suspect flagged for helping someone they assisted in a war. Since the logi already is going blinky on a whim, wardeccers chose to hide their logi in the crowd and used the mechanics to their advantage, aka neutral logi. This made it seem for most people that fighting a wardeccer “is impossible” because if you do, an army of neutral logi’s pop out of the blue.
@Dracvlad Really?
Dafuq?
Neutral Logi was a thing before crimewatch 2.0. It was a well documented whine.
It was supposedly keeping people from fighting OR keeping them from winning fights (depending on the group and/or whine thread)
1 Like
Did I say it wasn’t a thing before 2012? 
And does that change my statement on why people think its impossible to fight?
1 Like
Yeah I wanted you to clarify what you meant as it was not obvious. I agree that the inability to have allies in wars rep you is beyond stupid which we have talked about and agreed on before.
1 Like
In response to my question you:
Reference a mechanic change
Claim it caused a behavioral change in wardeccers.
But now your all “did I say…”
OK m8 
1 Like
Neutral RR makes the small fights a lot harder for most players because they have to build in a counter for any neutral RR that appears on grid. So people shy away from even what appears to be easy fights because they have to counter something like that and most of the time they don’t have an army of alts to do this.
That you are defining it as a whine shows a lack of maturity on your part, the impact of neutral RR is well understood by most war deckers that I have spoken to.
And my statement still stands, the suspect logi was a thing before, and after… but its clearly used more now than before. You follow? 
Btw, you did see the thing about allies also going suspect?
If those logi were not neutral, players would have to build in counters too.
Which, logically, means that people are not complaining about neutral logi.
They are complaining about either
- Effects of Logi on small fights
- Not having intel on enemy forces.
I have always held that 2) was the main problem. But its easier to not look bad by compalining about neutral logi. Thus, IMO, a whine
Well…something is clear.
But hey. U do U
A whine…, seriously, I am merely pointing out that it has a negative impact in terms of people deciding whether to fight, or even bother to log in. You see in terms of 2) people just assume that there will always be neutral RR and don’t bother, rather kills content… But if that rocks your boat 
so, overcomplicated crimewatch is part of the problem or it’s start there?
watchlist change was made because of free intel, capitals characters login etc. Is it that crucial to the state of nullsec war?
In general I think EvE should be harder while it becoming easier. It’s a process, hisec is “safe” because of concord “keeping” eye on players here. Because of it there have to be special rules under which players can shoot each other in empire space. Rules of engagement must be made to fill the exploit behaviour like station games and so on. Game rules must be simple otherwise we will have something like neutral logi example.
I think Concord power should be weaken. Maybe to guarding stations. Hisec players would have to organize better and defend their assets. Maybe creating sov empires should be reserved for nullsec, so no citadels in hisec or only smallest ones.
That’s probably where we differ. I do not think that, if neutral logi magically disappeared, there would be a large uptick in the % of players who chose to fight.
Instead of neutral logi, it will be because “Log on traps”, or “Corp switching”, or “Aggressors can travel too fast”, etc, etc.
Some people just do not want to take a fight if the odds are not in their favor. Be they aggressors or defenders.
But where you (appear) to think that’s a bad thing, I do not. I think its completely fine that there is a place in a sandbox game where the consequences are low when you choose to limit how much content you become for someone else.
1 Like
You got it wrong, it got oversimplified, that’s why allies goes suspect. it does not take account for the war.
Part of that reason is that hisec is now so dead, it is one of a number of adjustments that are needed.
So you would just ignore the major issue then because there are other reasons?
Yeah and war decking them is a waste of time…, which is why reasons other than looking for dumb targets are needed…
Ho hum, I went out of the way to waste the time of people trying to get kills on me, seriously great fun.
I honestly do not know if the indefinite article “it” references HS population or the % of players who chose to fight
I am saying that the major issue involved in neutral Logi is #2 above……which my exemplars are all variations of.
I disagree. Getting ship on ship action is only one of many reasons why war decs occur. And why the second half of your statement is something I do not see as a serious comment.
There are many reasons to war dec, but blanket war decs are very much aimed at ship on ship action… And to suggest it is not a serious comment because you decided to say that there are other reasons to war dec is not a serious comment.
But feel free to detail a larger proportion of POS and structure kills as compared to ships by the blanket war deckers. Of course smaller groups do go after structures, but they are not what most people are moaning about. I hope that this helps in toning up your replies.
The context of the discussion was about people being unwilling to fight when they couldn’t be sure the odds were in their favor, something that effects ALL wardecs.
I am not sure why you think suddenly changing the scope to ONLY blanket decs is anything but laughable.
It just look like your trying to save face after saying a bunch of dumb stuff.
The OP’s point was that he had corp mates who left because of war decs, nothing about being unwilling to fight, my reply to that is more like bad target selection by the war deckers. Blanket war deckers mainly target entities in the hope that people are dumb and fly something juicy while at war along the pipes, at the trade hubs and mission hubs. When you speak to people about war decs, with an open mind of course…, you will find that the senseless mass war decs are what gets people the most fed up.
Your point is worthless because of course people do war decs for many reasons, no one has said otherwise, so please continue arguing on a point that makes no difference to anyone to try to make yourself feel smart, I hope it works for you. Maybe I should spell it out, I war decked to kill a POS, I war decked to force someone to drop their tax rate on POCO’s, but they were not mass war decs, does that help.
Mass war decs to pick off dumb people is the pinnacle of hisec war now, and that is the issue, and you don’t often get interesting fights from dumb people, just nice explosions and a giggle. o7
2 Likes