LGBTQ in New Eden

Something I’ve not been able to find much on is how LGBTQ+ people are perceived in New Eden, particularly capsuleers. So, let’s have a discussion!

I think we can safely assume that the Gallente Federation is supportive of alternative sexualities and gender identities. Conversely, the Amarr Empire is probably not, although I’m unsure exactly how bad things would be.

The Caldari and Minmatar are a lot harder to pin down. For the Minmatar, I suspect it varies a lot by tribe and clan. The Minmatar are particularly likely to not conform to modern definitions of sexuality or gender identity. As for the Caldari, I suspect they lean towards not caring much about what someone does in private, but expecting them to fill their proper role in public. So they might be tolerant of gays and bisexuals, but not trans or gender non-conforming people.

Obviously, capsuleers are basically immune to social restrictions. However, I did want to talk about trans capsuleers. The process of regularly being cloned and the prohibition on genetic engineering would seem to make maintaining permanent body alterations very difficult. However, our bodies are the result of both our genetics and our experiences, and the cloning process includes ways of altering the body’s physiology through ways other than genetics. For that matter, since clones are created from donated cadavers and then modified once they are bought, a trans capsuleer might be able to buy a body that corresponded to their preferred gender.

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I would think by this point its accepted widely.

We can literally clone ourselves. If we haven’t overcome that bias by this time period, we should just fly into the sun TBH.

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As far as I know, LGBTQ+ is embraced by the Amarr, Gallente and the Minmatar.

Not so in the Caldari State. Mostly because of the smaller population and need for children.

This is why I’ve been deemed incompatible by the State Department for Hand Holding. I will not be able to secure the proper permissions to get married.

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This arguments a bit of a non-started at the given population scales, and even then, its not even something directly outlawed, just largely frowned upon to discuss or express openly.

That’s wild considering we can literally live forever.

Although it does align with human stupidity to be that biased still, even tho our tech has expanded long beyond the boundaries of caring if you’re gay or straight.

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In the State, its about controlling who is paired with who.

GalFed largely is supportive of such things but it would vary a lot by memberstate, given community, etc. Massive populations, lots of room for diverse views, wholesome and horrid both.

Amarr interestingly are actually fairly supportive of it, hell they even have a saint that covers intersex and transgenders. They don’t even have a sex taboo. Its a public sexuality taboo. You can reasonably have relations with whomever you choose to, as long as you aren’t screwing them in public or actively flouting the sexuality of the relationship. Similarly to Gallente though, it’ll depend a lot on location and community.

Minmatar… yeah that one’s hard to pin down, but I’d say similar to above.

Caldari is where things get a bit odd. They do not recognize same sex relations as legitimate on the legal scale, and encourage reproductive relationships, but at the multi-trillions population scale, its really quite odd. We know next to nothing out the Caldari view on transgender individuals but frankly, because of how advanced medical tech in the setting is, the operations and hormone treatments probably be viewed as just another medical procedure I’d wager, that could, and probably would in the long term increase the productivity of given individuals that need it. Afterall, a cared for worker is a productive worker.
Moving back over to same sex relations in the Caldari State, it’ll vary a good bit mega to mega, but something I’ve found interesting is the notable culture surrounding the hiring of companions and escorts, same or different sex, seeming to be fairly commonplace for private encounters.

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Well when the lore was written, it was still early 2000s.

Its funny how we apply current day standards to somewhere far in the future.

Again, if we care who is legally and consentingly sleeping with who by the time we can do what we can do in EVE, we deserve all the supernovas and blackholes we can get.

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That is a pretty subjective statement. The peoples of EVE suffered a near total civilization collapse when the EVE gate closed. Many distinctive cultures arose on many planets. Assuming that all those cultures bow to morality from 2022 is a bit of a stretch.

People here have already covered the Gallenteans and the Amarrians.

For the Matari, it’d differ wildly from clan to clan, and from tribe to tribe.

Last time I asked a CCP member about the position of homosexuals within the Caldari State I was basically told that they don’t hate homosexuality. They are just so collectively-minded that the concept of a marriage that does not produce children confuses them. Because they view increasing the population count as a responsibility every citizen has. I don’t think anyone has ever thought to inquire how the State feels about transgender people, but my expectation is that the answer would be the same. Their dedication to the good of the group, and their commitment to preserving the ways of their ancestors would get in the way of such things gaining public traction.

That said as long as someone is capable of doing what is expected of them (by all metrics) within Caldari society, people can (usually) do what they want in the private sphere.

I quote from the lore:

The state offers its citizens the best and the worst in living conditions. As long as you keep in line, do your part for the greater good, and obey corporate law, life can be fairly pleasant and productive. However, to those not cut out for this strict, disciplined regime, life quickly becomes intolerable. Individuals who cannot fit into the regimented framework of Caldari society often find themselves losing their respect, family, and social status with unsettling rapidity, being left with few options besides ritual suicide or exile. Although not xenophobic as such, the Caldari are very protective of their way of life and tolerate only those foreigners that stick to the rules.

Given that megacorporations define their citizens’ identities, the differences between the Deteis and Civire can be observed in their social habits, formal interactions, and philosophical approaches to being Caldari, rather than more overt ethnic markers. There is considerable academic debate over whether they can even be considered distinct ethnicities. Their characteristic social habits are a product of their upbringing, emphasized as a constituent heritage of the wider Caldari identity but otherwise not regarded as an important aspect of a citizen’s life. Those outside the state generally do not make a distinction between these social habits, instead considering them all to be an overall part of Caldari culture, a view the Caldari are more than happy to encourage.

Despite identifying as one collective Caldari unit, the Deteis and Civire rarely intermarry. The corporate-controlled marriage system segregates members of opposing genders (same-sex marriage is neither recognized nor legal within Caldari borders, a frequent topic of controversy between the Caldari and the considerably more liberal Gallente). This grouping is based on similarities in physical appearance, alongside other considerations, such as personal compatibility and socioeconomic standing. Maintaining consistency in physical appearance over the generations is seen as just one of the many necessities in the preservation of the history and tradition of the Caldari people.

Source:

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Before you added the link, I was about to point out the contrast between this and the view of offspring that are not Deteis-Deteis or Civire-Civire. Then you added the link, which gives helpful context. Nicely done.

Sorry about that. I didn’t think to add it in until after I posted.

Amarr isn’t so bad here!

This is a place where Amarr’s theme of basically being a mix of Premodern Empires in space means that they don’t really follow modernity’s ideas about the binary.

I would expect that they do have gender roles and stereotypes about which gender roles should pair with which other gender roles, and that they can be quite insistent that people need to color within the lines of whatever box they happen to fit in, but that they have different boxes than modern societies do. What I can say for sure is that they definitely have a positive recognition of intersex and non-binary and there does not seem to be evidence of hostility towards same gender relationships.

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One small addendum that I would like to add about the Caldari:

Caldari behaviour is firmly rooted in their view on culture. They consider it immensely important to follow, and pass on, the ways of their ancestors. This view of culture as a hereditary thing makes it -exceedingly- unlikely that they would judge non-Caldari outside of the state by Caldari standards.

Ergo, I highly doubt that a Caldari would ever criticize non-Caldari who live outside of the State for their choice of partner, or how they identify. Because every populace has their own way.

Unless someone from outside of Caldari society goes “I identify as a Caldari”. That might trigger them. But then again I’ve heard plenty of stories about Minmatar beating up Gallenteans for getting Minmatar tattoos they didn’t earn, so evidently the Caldari aren’t the only ones who dislike cultural appropriation.

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While reading the lore on the Amarr, I learned there are pockets of Minmatar sympathizers that work within the Empire. I think there would be an underground LGBTQ+ community that meet in secret to avoid punishment if caught.

its been mentioned further up @Yonniya_Rainor , but LGBTQ+ isn’t really considered a ‘sin’ or outlawed in the Empire.

While there is the outward appearance of ‘Catholic Hyperzealots in Space with Slavery’, they really aren’t.

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You are right, Lauralite. I saw the point after I posted. I didn’t first read the replies that followed the OP.

all good :smiley:

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we should have a mechanic for sex change in this game.

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In lore such things are fairly trivial, and I don’t disagree, but mechanics are a ■■■■■