@Nicolai_Serkanner, stop trolling, can you actually write more than one sentence without insulting people.
Looking at those kills and what Jenn had said, it is evident that they did not have a close enough friend to watch their exit point and they did not set up a counter drop with other people who were active. I would think that this indicates that Jenn’s alliance is not that good…
His pathetic posting history is 99% just these oneliners. I think he is not a troll, its just him being himself.
Then you are not doing it right. The last time I tried to do what you just linked, I got a cyno and caps dropped on my ships. Maybe you should put scouts on the abyssal tear so that a defense fleet can warp in as soon as the scout sees trouble? And maybe you should use the lengthy invulnerability period to give your defense fleet the time to warp to you?
Or in other words: Be competent? All I see in your linked selection of losses are people who come back from Abyssal space although there are hostiles in the system and without preparation. Maybe you should change this before you decry how safe high sec is? After all, players are so much more capable and well-equipped in null sec to ensure their own safety, right?
I suppose null players are so rich they dont need those cruisers anyway.
They say that reading is fundamental. Exactly where did i indicate that I was one of those killmails I linked? My friends and I take precautions, as did at least one of those guys that I linked that died.
The point is that high sec’s extreme safety is at the heart of the OPs complaint about how “level 1-2-3 abyss loot will soon be worthless”.
I’m not complaining about the dangers of null sec (and how you could come to that conclusion mystifies me), im explaining to the OP that his problem isn’t the abyss sites, it’s high sec.
There is NO problem. Everything works as intended. 
Well, English is a hard language. “You” means a lot of things, not necessarily the personal you. 
And high sec is not the problem. The problem is that CCP only introduces farmable PVE instead of PVE that is not susceptible to farming the rewards into the ground. High sec is not the issue here at all. The only thing it maybe does is bring forth the continued shortsightedness of CCP when it comes to introducing new things. It has been the case with citadel spam, it has been the case with event farming, it has been the case with Abyss space, it has been the case with Incursions (to some extend).
Without the overpowered mechanical safety of high sec, some of those 1-2-3 farming high sec abyss runners would be killed before they can get their loot to market to drive prices down.
Notice is wasn’t a low sec/null sec abyss runner that started this thread…
The OP does not want to run 4s and 5s because (among other things) the suspect timer and is asking CCP for some kind of expanded content. I’m saying that were it not for high sec safety, the lower tier abyss loot wouldn’t BE tanking in value in the 1st place, and he could continue doing that instead of making threads asking for more.
I don’t find it surprising that high sec players can’t see how high sec’s mechanical safety advantage is actually a bad thing with regards to PVE content. The same thing happened with incursions, leading to the 1st series of nerfs because high sec allows for uncontrollable farming.
If CCP improves the rewards somehow, those will just get farmed more too.
CCP itself said in the first place they want to expand on this, so a request for more is not surprising, regardless where it comes from.
I argue that the supercapital and capital umbrella of null sec is far more overpowered than concord, considering what kind of wealth you can farm in null sec.
They are only a problem if you lay out the PVE in a specific way to make it farmable beyond imagination. Missions do not have this problem. Neither does high sec exploration nor Incursions. Only the extremely farmable new PVE as of late has these issues, which high sec highlights but not creates in the first place.
Probably so. Now what exactly does that have to do with anything we are talking about?
I agree on the safety of highsec being a problem, but it is not the reason the prices are going down. If anything it is just an accelerator for that. The underlying reasons for the prices going down (faster or slower), is that the loot is currently overvalued for it being rare and new and the prices are still not en par with the actual use value of the loot.
That a simple cyno can drive away any would-be opposition or attackers on your precious ship. The fleets that killed your guys there would have been smoked to dust if a couple of Lokis or even HAW dreads had jumped to the rescue of the farmer. You do not have that in high sec.
This is completely untrue. Just about everything you can get in high sec is less valuable than it might otherwise be because of safe farming. Incursions were a good example, they were way to good and way to farmable and CCP nerfed them leading to the collapse of the original incursion communities.
High sec is a nightmare to balance in terms of PVE, which is why historically it hasn’t gotten the best PVE opurtunities. The entire reason there are suspect timers on levels 4 and 5 abyss pockets is that safety, CCP just didn’t go nearly far enough.
Nor is it needed because the game launches a defense for you. It’s called CONCORD.
You accidentally stumbled upon the point I was making to the OP…
There are only so many LP that you can farm with missions and thousands of people do that already for years, so that that income has leveled itself to a for all involved profitable position. The introduction of ESS, for instance, in null sec upset this equilibrium because all of a sudden people could farm way more LP than with missions in their save space without any downsides (except for being in space). When LP could only be farmed by missions, you had to deal with unsuitable missions and downtimes for denying missions as well as standing loss. ESS removed that and made farming certain LP possible without any impunity or downsides. Another example of over-farmable PVE that CCP introduced for who knows what reason.
As far as I know, most old incursion communities are still active. TVP, TDF, among others. Despite the nerfs, low sec incursions even garnered the attention of more people in recent times.
Null sec is just as much a nightmare because there you can farm PVE even harder. Just look at the ratting income from anomalies. For a time, even Incursions were insanely farmable in null sec, especially after the introduction of Rorquals where Rorqual alt hordes farmed them more than high sec incursions got farmed.
That’s not quite the case. Concord retaliates for an ongoing attack. Those attacks usually are setup in ways that make sure the target dies before Concord destroy the attackers. In null sec with your capital umbrella, you can just light a cyno or warp in caps from a Keepstar or Fortizar (beats me why you would run Abyssal sites from any other location) to drive away attackers in the first place. This happened to me multiple times and just goes to show how save Abyssal farming in null sec really is if you don’t do it the wrong way.
None of that has much to do with the OPs complaint.
The OP was one of those displeased with the idea of suspect timers in high sec. CCP seems to have listened and watered down their plans. The result is turbo farming 1s through 3s from the safety of high sec which is the most likely cause of the drop in value the OP is complaining about.
As I expected, nothing there.
You’re right of course, but one of the core problems with this content is that CCP set out with the goal to release content that would be turbo-farmed. They probably used terms like “high uptake” and “increased engagement” in the meetings, but the goal was to draw in as many players as possible to the new content, including a cohort of players that lack the time for other types of content in the game. Heck, all the rumblings say that the initial version presented to the CSM didn’t even have the ability for other players to scan down the entrance/exit site at all meaning that the design was to hook as many players by dangling fun PvE and tasty rewards in front of them, in a bite-sized package, with how to do so in the context of an open-world, full-loot, single economy game being a complete afterthought.
It’s not therefore surprising then that there are going to be issues figuring out how to reward content that can endlessly be run in complete safety that won’t trash the economy. In fact, I am not even sure it is possible. It’s a reflection of the core idea of risk vs. reward of this game; safe and easy/effortless content will have near worthless rewards.
I give CCP credit for at least not spawning existing items or resources in these sites which will isolate the main economy from the effect of this turbo-farming, but once Abyssal site losses dry up as the content is mastered, and the initial novelty demand for the new rewards is satisfied, the value of the items coming out will trend towards nothing, plateauing on average to what 10-20 minutes of highsec missioning or pays out per site, maybe even less if they are more accessible than missions. Maybe there will be some room for those with higher risk tolerance and skill to make more out of L5s depending on how they are balanced, and there is the chance that some of the rarer, in demand, mutaplasmids might provide a jackpot drop once-in-a-while, but generally nothing coming out of these sites is going to be rare nor worth very much.
I feel exactly the same way, even compared the F4, F5 sites to Resource Wars as well due to the number of people that will actually be having fun in them once things settle. Add to that I think I spent way too much time on this on Sisi, and now its just bleh.
I’m not either. Content needs something to balance out so that not every swining schlong with a cruiser is doing it though.
In low, null and WH space, players are the balance. A simple search on zkill for abysal loot shows that a whole lot of the ships that are getting killed after doing a site are outside of high sec. If abyss sites were only available outside of high sec, an equilibrium between the risk of getting the loot and the demand for that loot would emerge, and it would probably be one of the more profitable PVE activities for a very long time.
But abyassal deadspace IS available in high sec, and 3 of the 5 tiers incur zero balancing penalties for people who want to farm them. The only ways to attack high sec abyss runners are war decs , forgotten kill rights and suicide ganks.
If high sec players knew what was good for them, they’d be asking for suspect timers for all the tiers and would then run abyss sites in out of the way high sec pockets where no one is looking. This way the ganker boys would pick off the chaff while making the loot more worthwhile for smart abyss runners.