Local Comms Blackout - Discussion Thread

[Colonel_Tosh]

I like how you assume that I am living in wormholes, while I am not.

[Atin_Adestur]

Yeah, but here’s the thing. When they win it’s having earned it, not by dropping a titan on a fleet that’s engageable BY A T1 NOOB FLEET.

[Pikk_Ax]

Null will truly be lawless and difficult?
We will have to put more on the line in order to reap giant rewards?
After so many years of get gud and HTFU, It’s tantrum time?
Just so you know, the quiet ones are already looking into how to use this to their advantage.
Get Good. HTFU.

[Rollaz]

Jita 4,4 blackout… = mass bot revolt

[Glornak_Ironspawn]

They don’t retreat to their hole because they’re not gonna lead a bigger fleet to their home. You’re being aggressively dumb here.

[Colonel_Tosh]

From both sides of the battle:

Many wormhole players are more individually skilled than many null-sec players. That isn’t neccesarily bad, but the space makes competition a little more important, especially in groups. But, even that skill does not match up against the blob of players that a null entity can form actively.

I’ve been on drops in null before through w-space and plenty of times we had to retreat because it is literally pointless to aim your 20 man fleet against a 150 man response in areas such as Delve or Deklein. On the other hand, it also is suicide for local null members to form a 5 man fleet against a group well versed into this form of gameplay.

You call it chicken behaviour. I call it reasonable threat assessment. A wormhole group will engage most groups if outnumbered, but if there’s not even a single chance for them to win the battle then they won’t. Why should they?

[Dictateur_Imperator]

In fact when you read post, he is not the most agressive in the conversation. More agressive are peopel who do’nt have any argument other than " i like you"'re tear" ou “STFU carebear”.

[Atin_Adestur]

Actually, we’ll do that. Especially if we have a system effect that works to our advantage… We’ve killed two 100 man fleets from horde doing just that… Well we were 4 jumps down chain, but still.

[Dictateur_Imperator]

Same question : Why farmer with no big umbrella will form to fight if they do’nt know if tyou are 5 or 100 ?

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Colonel_Tosh

Then you failed at ensuring your space is guarded and deserve to die. It is your responsibility to make security possible with your organisation and if you let them hotdrop you without a shred of intel, you either are baiting, OR your organisation is so dumb they can not even manage access to their space.

This is one area the large null security blocks have done well in the game, their ability to organise a umbrella of protection on their sources of income that is ultimately better than Concord is to be commended. The only problem is the cost of the success has reduced the subsequent risk to a point of breaking, not sure how change really deals with addressing that.

[Glornak_Ironspawn]

Facts. But I maintain he’s being aggressively dumb. Just to a lesser degree than some.

[Dictateur_Imperator]

It will just make life impossible outside umbrella, and the consequence will be to reinforce umbrella.

[Colonel_Tosh]

Absolutely.

It also shows that people may need to accept a smaller area of space in order to effectively defend it with intel and support. Delve is very defensible because most of the key systems are reachable within a single jump. Goons and friends capitalize on that by positioning their key defenses in such a way that they can respond to most of the action rapidly.

But even they are not impervious to being dropped or lapsing content and I believe that to be a good thing. Perfect intel should never be a thing because it reduces the content to a minimum. It stops people from engaging in your space and thus generate the need for others to generate money and spend it.

Many industrialists tend to semi-forget that each death is more money to them, so by having life less safe it may line their pockets more in the long term. But it requires teamwork, and that is notoriously hard to accomplish in people’s minds it seems.

[Dictateur_Imperator]

Problem is : he send argument, true arguement peopel insult him since now … hours ? So i understand his agressivity.
A lot of people who are happy for remove local in null don’t think to all consequence, they just think nice no more bot (it’s false bot can manage to livbe without local , and if you search you can find WH bot). And/or Nice killmail ongoing, it’s true for a week , after the game will loose a massive amount of player.
Ptoblem is for a lot of people “Loose player is nice”, the answer is no it’s not. If we looze to many player and become under the crici size of player for game… Well , game will just die.

[Orca_Platypus]

@Colonel_Tosh

Of course there are. Control the entrances to your pocket/systems. Ensure that wormholes get closed before a session and regularly have a team mate run through the cluster to see if anything new pops up. But that requires you to work together.

You deserve to be hotdropped to hell when this goes live.
Oh well, you will be, if you think it’s possible, go ahead, undock your shinies, and start crying.

@Colonel_Tosh

But yes, it does happen people may drop. Part of the game.

What do you mean “may”?
This is eve, peeveepeener is the most risk-averse chicken in the world, it will not drop anything it is afraid he can’t reliably kill, so you will get dropped and killed.

@Colonel_Tosh

PVE isn’t hard. Once your fit is sorted, for all but the hardest sites, there is no difficulty to it. Is it annoying to have multiple ships and fits for different content? Maybe. But it isn’t hard at all. Learn the mechanics, pay attention to flying your ship right (i.e. transversal) and it is currently a cakewalk.

It is still much harder than pvp, which was the whole point.
And at that level, it’s probably not hard, but you’re probably dirt poor if you’re so much of a pleb.

@Colonel_Tosh

Not really an argument, I’d argue that high-sec for krabs is even better now that you can dip out of wardecs with your friends and be “impervious” to all but suicide ganks or your own stupidity.

Suicide ganks are unstoppable and so easy a trained dog could probably pull them off.
There is no way to stop that stupidity, so it’s one of the reasons I don’t play hisec - until they make risk/reward of ganking in line with hisec reward that got nerfed into oblivion, it’s not playable.

@Colonel_Tosh

I live in Immensea on the front line with WinterCo. while battling a bitter battle over the space. I deal with incursions of both our enemies, random roamers, hotdroppers and wormholers daily on this toon and multiple alts. I used to be a wormholer, but left that space due to the time commitment it requires.

So I have been on both sides of the fence. I see what happens when wormholers fight their battle, and I see what wormholers are up against when they engage in a region. There are easy solutions towards that challenge in your space which discourage the likeliness that they target you.

In our space, wormholes get closed rather rapidly. As a result, many groups that don’t pay attention get locked out or don’t want to stray too far from their home. Is that a solution? Yes. I may personally not like being the guy to roll content away, but in the end the options are there if you’re not a coward and head out there.

Locking out most of the time simply fails, and achieves nothing but feeding rollers. Yes, it does get rid of wormchickens faster, but doesn’t do any damage to them even if they do get locked out, they just run to the next hole. And that is the best case scenario, to make them run by feeding, worst is to lose a fleet, and both scenarios suck enough to pick not undocking as the best one.

[Balatar]

sorry CCP but this is the biggest load of c*** you’ve ever pulled. if you are going to delay local ‘just like in wormhole space’ make it apply to everyone. way to go CCP.

[Colonel_Tosh]

I do not agree.

It will change the life outside of a “super umbrella” significantly. People may need to consolidate more into systems they want to use for PVE, or to reposition into areas that are more defensible in smaller numbers. Any group willing to work for their existence can do it for sure.

[Dictateur_Imperator]

Local is not the perfect intel, Dotlan and evemap are.
When you can see who farm who, when, number of cyno jump and other thing …
So remove ALL intel could be nice.

[H4R1_Seldon]

Yes, yes and yes.please make this constant.this one of the best thing happened last years.gj ccp.

[Orca_Platypus]

@Colonel_Tosh

I do not agree.

It will change the life outside of a “super umbrella” significantly. People may need to consolidate more into systems they want to use for PVE, or to reposition into areas that are more defensible in smaller numbers. Any group willing to work for their existence can do it for sure.

“consolidation” will only make hotdropping easier.
I personally will be laughing at this from an alpha acc in a slasher.