Main AFK cloaky thread

(guigui lechat) #364

I told parasol that there are more difference between null and wh than only the presence of local chat.

How does it say anything about my ability to find cloaky campers in wh ?

(Sentient Blade) #365

“You’re never 100% safe in EVE Online whether you’re in space or in station.”

Ironically enough, unless you’re cloaked in a safe spot :wink:

(Lena Crews) #366

In theory someone could fly to every point in space to decloak you.

99.99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% isn’t 100%… but it is pretty close. That’s about where AFK cloaking is right now.

edit mistakenly quoted the wrong post. Fixed.

(Teckos Pech) #367

Always a good idea. :stuck_out_tongue:

(Shallanna Yassavi) #368

Trying to tie local to active input on the character wouldn’t be so bad. Simple mechanic: if you’ve interacted with the client on the last 10 minutes, you get local (Edit: and if you haven’t touched the client in the last 10 minutes, everyone in system sees). If the client doesn’t have focus in the windowmanager (say, a screensaver or the lock screen took it), it doesn’t get local either. Both of which could be circumvented with VMs for anonymity, sigh. Both of which the nullbears would absolutely set up fall guys for if they “had” to.

Would it ruin the tactic of going to work and leave an afk cloaky toon in a system to mess with the locals’ heads? Obviously, but that’s not interesting.

Would it ruin the tripwire alts people park several jumps away from their favorite ratting system to alert them to incoming trouble? Maybe. The nullbears would have to gasp interact with the scout clients if they wanted any useful intel! Just streaming the clients on Twitch and having a script watch local for intruders over the Twitch stream wouldn’t work any more.

(Teckos Pech) #369

How so? If I set up my cloaker and then go to work and local turns off for me, why would I even care? So long as I show in the local for the active character…AFK cloaking still works.

(Max Deveron) #370

Ok, the argument(s) is just stupid.
Lets drop the AFK part because that is not the issue with it, the issue is with being unable to interact ever with something that is cloaky in EvE.

Doesnt matter if its CovOp’s cloak or not. Every other single Game, Movie, TV show, Book series, Comic, etc etc has a way to deal with Cloaking Technology, usually because it can not be perfect, its not magic its tech.

In EvE though its magic, not tech.
Cloaks dont even use capacitor, or so minimal it is irrelevant.

1.) We need a way to be able to like “sonar ping” the grid for a cloaker (this assume you already have a relative idea where the ship is).

2.) Cloaks need to use Cap in a way so the cloak has a fair chance after some time of turning off if left unattended. (or gimp your fit to be cap stable)

3.) Cloaks are used everywhere, the type of space Losec, Nullsec, Wh, Highsec…is all completely irrelevant.

4.) AFK or not is irrelevant, the cloak system for the most part is 100% safe, especially in the hands of a non-afk Pilot. 100% safe = unable to interact with.

(Teckos Pech) #371

Mike? Is that you?

Now you’ll go through the entire song and dance Mike Voidstar went through regarding how cloaks are OP, right?

Yeah, and in EVE the solution is catch them on the gates or near a structure where they can’t cloak. Further, cloaked ships in EVE are not nearly a match for their non-cloaking counter parts.

Why, you already know they are in system with you. Why should you be given extra benefits here. Can we change cloaking ships so they can decloak-shoot-cloak? Or maybe just shoot while cloaked? No? Gee, why do you get a buff and the other side does not?

And yet another buff to your play style by nerfing that of others, including those who are not AFK cloaking. Oh, good job trying to ditch the AFK part so you can justify nerfing the game of those who aren’t bothering you. :roll_eyes:

Wut? In w-space nobody worries or complains about cloaking ships, so your statement is patently false.

That’s it! Use the same tired arguments Mike has been using for months.

Oh, and being docked means you are 100% safe and can’t interact, so based on this argument we are going to get a “Force Undock Button” right? :roll_eyes:

BTW, given how literal some are in this thread, that last one is sarcasm. :roll_eyes:

(Sonya Corvinus) #372

The current tradeoff is you can’t earn ISK or shoot anyone when cloaked. If you want to be able to find someone cloaked, what part of cloaking are you going to buff to make up for your nerf?

(Max Deveron) #373

first i dont know who mike is.
Second i dont like you, you are are a trolly ass at best,
So beyond this reply you can kiss off, im not talking to you.
Most every where else almost everyone says the same thing to you even other trolls so please stick a sock in it.

(Max Deveron) #374

i dont see any nerfs suggested.
Just adaptation.

And i only suggested the ideas i did fro discussion because i would not mind someone else having the ability to hunt me down like this.

It adds to the thrill.

(Teckos Pech) #375

They are all nerfs to cloaks in general, and look no nerfs to your preferred form of play…what a shock.

Yet I’m the troll. :rofl:

You do know that projecting is a defense mechanism, right?

(Black Pedro) #376

This phenomenon needs a name. People have no problem coming to these forums and proposing changes to the game that completely, straight-out, rewrite the rules of the game in their favour yet are blinded to that fact by self-interest. Most of the time is is just because they lost something or are inconvenienced by the actions of another player and want an easier, less competitive gaming experience, but even in the rarer cases where there is some sort of game play issue, they propose solutions based on dogma or invented principles that just happens to completely align with their personal interests in the game allowing them to grind more resources faster or safer.

AFK cloaking is in the game for a very practical reason. It is not there as part of some master planned out risk vs. reward mechanism. It is basically a side effect of the cloaking design and perfect local intel that in total, serves as a way, really the only practical way short of evicting them, to disrupt the resource generation of an opponent in nullsec. Wanting to change how it works to better fit the overall theme of the game and to generate more interesting game play is perfectly fine. Asking to have cloaks nerfed hard based on some vague platitude of how the game should work with no regard to balance, and coincidentally in a way that favours your playstyle and hurts the other guy is one of the worst forms of intellectual dishonesty. Frankly, it is stuff that keeps the developers at arms length from the forums.

If you want to replace AFK cloaking as a tactic to put pressure on nullsec residents with something more interesting, then start with the premise that this is a PvP sandbox game based on player interaction. Come up with a system doesn’t just make nullsec ratting 100% safe for anyone with a pulse (and doesn’t make wormhole living more difficult) and go from there. Whining that the other guy should just “adapt” to your decrees to have the rules rewritten in your favour isn’t going anywhere. It just makes you look like a simpleton shaking your fist at the sky and futilely demanding some supreme being acquiesce to your petty and selfish demands.

(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #377

NIMBY-nerf bias

(Sonya Corvinus) #378

But why? Outside of “for the thrill”? If that’s your logic, let’s get rid of concord and NPC stations while we’re at it “for the thrill”

(Teckos Pech) #379

In economics we call this phenomena rent seeking. That is where you use the political process to secure economic benefits that you did not earn. In this case replace the “political process” with CCP, and replace “economic benefits” with changes to the rules that benefit a particular style of play.

I have been a long time forum warrior, watcher and participant and I am struck by the similarity to behavior of some on the forums with RL analogs in terms of rent seeking.

“Nerf that guy’s Content!”

Translates IRL to:

“Limit that guy’s ability to compete with me…make him get a license, pass inspections, meet various environmental requirements that I have been grandfathered on.”

Basically the same thing, IMO.

Again, I agree. I don’t think CCP planned any of this. I don’t think they anticipated local being an intel tool. I don’t think they anticipated AFK cloaking. But in the end I think they are to some degree content with the status quo of AFK cloaking and local. It may not be optimal, but it works more or less.

That being said, I also think CCP is looking to revamp this area of the game with the Observatory Array. In my more egotistical moments I like to think there is a Dev or two that periodically checks in on these threads and see what we are all nattering on about to see if something interesting has risen to the top of the nonsense.

And again I agree…which is not shocking as this is a post by @Black_Pedro. My view is that the current situation is sub-optimal, but balanced. Could it be better? Sure. Could the Observatory array make things better, I sure hope so, but it will not do so by simply nerfing cloaks and leaving local un-touched.

That Max does not see any nerfs here is indicative of his view of the game. He does not really know what a nerf is. All of his suggestions are nerfs to cloaks despite the fact that people use cloaking ships for more than AFK cloaking.

His attempt to divert the discussion, such as it is, away from AFK cloaking to cloaking in general highlights his overall view of the game, that of a carebear–i.e. somebody who wants to farm while being insulated from interacting with those who do not want to enhance his game play based on his view of the game.

His view of the game is, IMO, stunted. He does not see this as a sandbox where players can interact cooperatively or non-cooperatively. He is fine with the former, but the latter is anathema to him and his kind. Contrast that to the non-carebear attitude where all interaction is accepted as legitimate. The counter example to Max is @Jonah_Gravenstein who does “PvE” but is fine with the sandbox nature of the game and takes it as a challenge when people want to interact with him in a “negative manner”.

I know Max will likely post a protest response, but it will be a hollow one. If he were sincere that he is not a carebear he’d be fine with some discussion of the Observatory Array and removing local, and chainging how cloaks work. But he isn’t and never has been comfortable with that discussion. His protest response will be nothing more than a pretense.

(Mike Voidstar) #380

Yeah, sorry Tech, but I’m not Max.

Unsurprising that others will follow the same logical path that I did, being based in actual logic and all. Such is life.

But whatever, Dev Fiat declared it OK, and balance bedamned it’s now OK. End of story.

(Max Deveron) #381

I dont see an issue with getting rid of concord

(Max Deveron) #382

For the last time dude,

I dont live in nullsec, I live in Highsec.

So when i talk about this, I am not putting the “AFK” label along side the term cloaking.
When i talked about adding thrill or whatnot,
I am thinking it would be cool if someone could intefere with me (as a player doenst matter character im on) or place pressure on myself in the ways i proposed if I am in ship utilizing any type of cloak system.

I left nullsec years ago, created this guy and have been living in highsec, so remember when i talk here my perspective of things come from Highsec view. I understand the issues for nullsec, but i could really care less about it.
The blocs out there I am sure have ways to deal with a change to how cloak meta-play works, im interested in how a change would be good/cool for Empire space.

(ashofski) #383


good to see CCP is both interested in input from players and takes an impartial stance while moderating community discussions.

"You’re never 100% safe in EVE Online whether you’re in space or in station"
EXCEPT WHEN YOU’RE CLOAKED! Then you absolutely ARE 100% safe, which is why you can gain an advantage over other players by doing so 23/7 (obviously AFK for a significant portion of the time, so gaining an advantage while not actually playing the game) either forcing them to stay docked up or forcing them to ignore you so you can hot drop them when you decide the time is right.

Pretty sad that CCP as an organization has decided to take an absolutist stance based on an obviously flawed argument