reading through i think your biggest issue is you keep trying to use examples of battleships on their own. they should not be on their own. they are excellent force multipliers to any fleet built to support them and giving them faster warp speeds eliminates the drawbacks to bringing fleets built around them. Its not just about the trade off the battleship makes in its own vacuum but the trade offs a fleet has to make to bring them
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Personally, the biggest thing about this game that throws me is the lack of physics and logic for ship construction, layout and function.
No mater how long I play for, the IRL translation of a cruiser, BC or anything short of another battleship, a carrier or a destroyer armed with torpedoes facing off against a battleship = a lot of fu**ed up ships other than the battleship.
It just does not computeā¦
That and a Dreadnought is nothing more than just an all big gun battleship.
Every battleship that ever was used by itself without a support fleet ended at the bottom of the sea so if you want realism, Iām sorry but we will have to make them even more dependent on their support.
Few ships operated alone in history, so that you think Iām talking about always operating alone is just you assuming.
"Every battleship that ever was used by itself without a support fleet ended at the bottom of the sea "
You are right. 
The Bismark
(The only Battleship to ever operate alone without a fleet and facedā¦ What was it?..
(THE ENTIRE BRITISH, AMERICAN AND ALLIED ATLANTIC FLEETS COMBINED)
It did end up on the bottom of the oceanā¦
After instilling absolute, pure, panic because it was so damn fast and blew up the most revered BC in the royal navy and crippled another battleship before a lucky shot crippled itās rudder and was eventually run down and bombarded until it was no longer able to fire back so her crew scuttled her.
Do you know of any other battleships that operated without a fleet?
Because if I recall correctly many fast battleships where designed to operate alone as heavy raiders.
That is what the Bismark was built for and if it had made it to the South Atlantic, WW2 would have turned very sour for the Allies.
Thats a crap accusation. Ofc I try to understand.
Anyways, I already agreed to 2.2 for T1 and 2.4 for T2, as proposed by @Mina_Sebiestar
PS Most BS have substantial drone bandwidth capable of dealing with frigates/cruisers.
No, I reference them on their own to show that they alone are not worthwhile. They need supportā¦ and that alone is a huge sacrifice.
But making battleships slow means that you only take them when you need them. When youāve got a titan to bridge them because itās a stratop. You donāt take battleships on 45 jump roams through a region looking for content, because ā ā ā ā that, you donāt feel like spending an hour just on the travel alone. Not when you can do that same amount of travel in <30 mins. I am of course counting just travel time and not actual content found along the way.
Thatās my argument. Battleships are too slow for people to want to take them on roams. They want to take things that donāt leave them clawing their eyes out.
I completely agree with you that a battleship should be supported. I do and always have enjoyed the concept of mixed doctrine fleets. But while battleships are slow, mixed doctrine roams will never get larger than nano ABCs unless theyāre just cruising around a few systems nearby.
I also agree that properly supported, a fleet with battleships is orders of magnitude stronger than a fleet without it.
But tell meā¦ if battleships warp faster, whatās to stop the response fleet from also having battleships? Why would they downship to something that can make the trip in time to save the PANICād rorq, when they can get there with battleships?
The travel speed merely allows battleships to be used. Not just by attackers but by defenders as well.
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Whatās the point of responding with anything but battleship if battleship make it there pretty much just as fast? If the difference amount to 6 seconds of align time per system, You only end up being a minute late per 10 jumps so nobody will respond with cruisers unless they are too poor to field a BS doctrine I guess.
Do you think people will bring them on roams if they warp at 2.2? 2.4? And remember, as soon as you hit about 2.2 base warp speed, a Mach is now probably faster than cruisers (except a Cynabal) to respond the total distance.
You are funny. Your āresponseā will be 30 carriers, 55 dreads, 2 titans and 8 supers for one battleship.
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we donāt have titans and we used them all the time in LS all you need is give up one low and youāre fine speed wise
Because battleships alone are insufficient. If you wipe out their support, youāve effectively defanged their battleshipsā¦ unless you bring battleships too, in which case theyāre still useful against your battleships. Most support ships are not especially tanky. Combat recons can get reasonably tanky, especially with logistics, but if you couldnāt break their logistics anyways you were doomed to fail with anything short of an arty doctrine.
Angel ships are an exceptionā¦ the dram is only 0.5AU slower than an interceptor, with a way better align time. For all intents and purposes, a drami will be better at intercepting than an interceptor. Yes it has other considerations (no bonus to point range) but itās damn fast. And while Iām comparing frigates to frigates, interceptors are optimized for speed and frigates donāt have any faster (combat) ships to baseline against.
The cynabal is only 0.5AU away from frigate speed, once again with frigate align times. If itās a concern having an angel battleship warping faster than a cruiser, tweak their numbers to keep them at that 0.5 below threshold. Itās a slight nerf to the Mach, but a buff to the entire battleship line. They could use it.
How far do you travel? Do you roam entire regions of null? Iām sure you do at some point, but do you do it in battleships? LS is small. Very small. Battleship speeds are fine when you arenāt traveling far, but null is not a small chunk of space. The typical ānot every ship is meant to be used everywhereā argument is nonsense, an entire line of ships should not be disregarded from a huge section of the game.
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I ask again. Suppose every subcap had a base warp speed of 5. Align times remain where they are.
Angel ships get their bonus, interceptors get their bonus.
What gets broken?
Battleships travel more than twice their current speed, fleets are able to stay together without having to wait for their battleships to catch up. Aligns become an issue but FC just orders aligns before each warp.
Battleships still have the same strengths and weaknesses as before. They still rely on support, which is their Achilles heel. You kill their support and the pilots in the battleships are now useless against anything smaller than a battlecruiser (even then).
It increases fleet diversity, it increases battleship usage (which is quite low in null roams).
Bigger is not supposed to be better. But smaller is not supposed to be better either. Right now smaller is substantially better.
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I do agree with here and I am all for diversity in grid but the sad thing is, EVE is more capital online with 2 day old noobs who ask questions like what a jump drive is.
One of the dark side effects of cheat stix.
Back to battleships, I have no issue having them fly at higher FTL speed than now and I donāt see a higher FTL speed breaking anything (but carebear carriers in farm-ville).
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Iād be a whole lot less keen to jump my carrier into a group of battleships than I would a current roam. Battleships with logistical support can tank carriers reasonably well, while defanging them terrifyingly fast.
Carriers are useless without their fighters. Fighters canāt really be manually piloted, so they canāt really utilize the battleshipās weak tracking to great effectā¦ especially if a huginn just webbed it.
With faxes on grid the battleships may not kill any of the capitals, at least, not quickly, but theyād certainly defang carriers quickly. Coupled with other suggestions in other threads to remove HAW packages from dreads/titans, it would do wonders for ācapitals onlineā.
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And I will be the first to jump at it and say yes please!
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CCP ignored BS class for way too long and concequences are showing,the sooner somethingās get changed the better.
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wellā¦ bubbles for one, then blops become even more impossible to catch
and BBs donāt need to be able to roam large areas of space
Says the lowsec dude. Nullsec dude (me) says they should be viable there. Each opinion carries equal weight. Is there a justification for your opinion? My justification is that an entire line of ships should not be excluded from a large percentage of players on the basis of being too slow to be tolerated by players.
How are bubbles broken by this? They still stop things if they go up before warp. Align time isnāt changed so BBs still get into warp as fast as they did before. Theyāre just as (un-) fast on-grid as they were before, so getting caught in a bubble is still just as dangerous as it was. Literally the only change is that they end up in the bubble sooner rather than later. A proper fleet-warp will still see the entire fleet landing in said bubble at the same time.
As for blops, the way to kill them, just as it is at this very moment is to scram them so they canāt MJD out (I know youāre already keenly aware of this). If they had a chance to MJD out, you missed your chance already. Yes, you can probe them down in warp, but you can still probe them down and fleet-warp a cepter to them (everyone else exempts and then the cepter moves at cepter speeds, 3AU faster).
Theyāve got absolutely way to hold the grid. Theyāve got shitty mobility. The ability to slip out is no less warranted on them than it is on bombers or T3Cs, especially considering their role as surprise buttsex hulls. That said, Iād trade their ability to slip out for the ability to hold the grid any day of the week. But thatās a personal opinion on my own playstyle preferences.
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awkward when āthe lowsec dudeā needs to explain that the distance you land inside the bubble is effected by your warp acceleration. Your warp acceleration is tied to your warp speed
blops become hard to catch with this because they can align faster than some frigates the sin has one of the fastest align times in the game.
and no these do not need to roam large distances they are battleships. you seem to be trying to convey that iām only talking about ls my comments are with HS LS and WH in mind all areas that do not need a warp speed buff applied to battleships. In null like you mentioned you have titan bridges if you need to through around BB weight.
BBs are used as little as they are not because they are slow that is just an easy thing to point to. the problem is they sit in a very awkward spot with a very very narrow window where you are better off bringing them rather than a cruiser a t3 or a capital. rather than fixing warp speed, giving them more to make their drawbacks worth it would be a better step.
for example eve has seen a lot of power creep over the years where cruisers are doing over 600dps and getting 50kehp tank T2s can get over 1k dps in some ships and over 100kehp t3s while not as bad as they were are still just better BBs with cruiser sig. balancing BBs to fit with this creep would do a lot more and over all be better for the game than just upping warp speed or giving them better sub cap application.
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