You cant go on to say that Missile BBs negate any negative battleships have. Of course thats the case, missiles have 100% hit chance, other than in extreme circumstances. Rapid heavy launchers are broken AF right now, because they are the only weapon system specifically designed for taking out smaller things. The problem is that guns dont. And getting transversal in a turreted battleships is much harder than you think. 99% of the time you have to do it in a shield battleship because armor battleships are far too slow and sluggish. Neuts? ok 3 battleships cant use neuts, without significantly hurting their DPS. Also, the argument âuse undersized gunsâ is ridiculous, just use a battlecruiser than. Sure you can, with enough sacrifices, make battleships work, but with the aforementioned sacrifices, you literally might as well use a battlecruiser.
IRL By WW2 BBs were some of the heaviest AA platforms of the war. (AA = Anti Frig EVE)
Not to say they where the end all be all in that range.
But the AA fire they could put out was staggering.
What is forgotten a lot about BBs is that they did have big guns⌠And medium and small guns.
Something missing in EVE.
True you could mount smaller guns in high slots for smaller ships⌠But then you are sacrificing a lot of what defines a BB most.
Same goes for BC they had about or just as much firepower as BBs, but with less armor to increase speed for raiding/Hit and run.
Cruisers often specialized more on AA capability and eliminating smaller shipsâŚOften Destroyers, acting as a screening ship.
I fly turret BS often (pest and apoc the most). Neither are shield fit. Nano pest is strong due to dps and dual heavy neuts. 800s with TEâs and a metastasis rig will bring down cruisers with ease (since it also does almost 1k dps). If tackle frigs come at you, you hit with staggered heavy neuts and grapple to cripple them and turn off mwd, then you pull transversal while theyre dead in the water for an easy kill.
There are more than 3 turret BS than can field neuts without hurting dps.
Typhoon FI
Tempest
Tempest FI
Mach
Nightmare
Navy mega
Domi/domi navy (kind of)
Hyperion (med neut)
Thats just turret, missile BS can field them as well.
Typhoon FI
Raven
Scorp navy
Bharg
Typhoon
My apoc i drop a gun for a heavy neut. Still projects 550dps out to 60km with a tracking bonus to boot. Good for spooking orthrus. Yes lose dps in exchange for utility, id say its a fair trade. It opens the apoc up for more flexible roles and the element of surprise. Its not a slow BS, it is when its plated to all hell, but its mwd speed isnt far behind a pest (~100m/s).
Bcs cant field the tank of a BS (active repped). The closest would be a triple rep myrm or dual XLASB cyclone but its dps is pretty weak at that point. 8 425s or med neutron blasters still pump out 700-800+ dps, combined with a grappler will easily track small ships and remove them.
I did this on a Napoc and rokh. Had 160k EHP+LAAR on the napoc and a 1100dps tank on the rokh. A t1 bc couldnt do that and do 700-800dps.
Fun fact, a Napoc has the 2nd highest scan res (behind the mach). With a sebo and sig res rig, it gets a sig resolution of a cruiser. Makes for a fun toy when you bubble camp hordeâs pipe (and inevitably wipe out their inty fleet that tries to stop you). Link for rokh and napoc fight Here
hac? no need to waist your isk on t2 a gila can get 100k ehp and 900 dps
⌠also this is 15 seconds (16 with faction) and you complain that i donât know what iâm talking about
I am SHOCKED, shocked i say. Lugh_Crow-Slavesâs goal post has shifted when its been discovered there is no HAC that exists that fills in the numbers he has carelessly thrown around trying to devalue my statements.
Let me help refresh you on your own argument.
We were never talking about pirate cruisers. I mentioned HACs and how t1 BS are cheaper to roam (welp) than HACs and cost is not a prohibitive factor.
But lets go with this Gila (that suddenly gained 100dps) that has the signature of a small moon (speed/sig tanking right?).
You cant get 900 dps and 100k EHP unless youre using the new hunter bcuâs. But then youve tacked on 200m+ in costs with faction BCUs. Remember, we are talking about t1 BS being very cost efficient, making your cruiser cost 500m defeats your own argument.
Dual DDA with augmented hammerheads and fury rlml puts you at 800dps (850 heated). If you go triple DDA, then youre definitely not getting 100k EHP through buffer as you lose the DCU.
Speaking of 100k buffer, it takes 3 RF LSEs, 3 t2 extender rigs and 2 invuln+DCU to meet those numbers, talking strictly buffer. Leaving you with an MWD and one extra mid for either tackle or a cap booster. What exactly are you going to tackle when you have no tackle? For that matter, how will you keep your cap alive with a sub 2min (1min 40s) cap life?
Now, the only way i see your numbers is if youre using an XLASB and sorting out the EHP per clip. Which thats not buffer. It could be alphaâd through before you use all your charges, at which point its not 100k buffer.
I wait with utter anticipation for your reply that doesnt include a fit.
Edit: keep in mind this is before links or implants apply.
I was thinking about my earlier idea of a T2 battleship that is centered around cyno inhibition. Would focus more on tank (as do the T1 tier 3 BBs) and damage would be secondary, ie 4-6 unbonused guns/ launchers. Bonuses would be tank oriented. Wouldnât render the deployable inhibs obsolete either, as they are far cheaper than these BBs would be. Could have it where the inhib would turn off cynos (could be scripted, one script for standard cyno, one for cov ops). This ability would help reduce the impact of the aforementioned increase in cyno fuel costs
for jump freighters. Cruiser/hauler/BB/what ever lights the cyno would light their cyno, JF would jump through, then have a friendly inhib BB activate itâs inhib and turn off the friendly cyno, reducing the time that more expensive cyno-lighting ship is stuck immobile.
Bring this BB on a roam, and if used right, You wouldnât have to worry about being hot dropped, unless the hot dropper is determined to drop, with enough fuel for a second try, for example. Would be useful for capital on capital warfare too, would give you that much extra time to set up superiority or save friendly caps. This BB would have so many incredible uses.
Just an idea.
Frig or cruiser would make more sense.
you are an idiot
cyno up
bridge fleet
activate inhib
win
The idea is to make it expensive. It is a very powerful ability, it has to be expensive to justify the power. High risk, High power.
Thatâs the idea. It would be such a great tactical asset. Because on the other hand, you could prevent a gank of a rorqual. It has tremendous power on both sides.
its an instant âI winâ button. every capital fight will literally be decided in under 60s
If ârfâ mean republic fleet, then you are wrong. The Caldari Navy shield extenders give more shield hp and a linked Gila doesnât have to be very bling to get to 100k ehp.
The Eagle with 2x large extenders, 1 power diagnostic system, adaptive invulnerability field and em field is already at 93k ehp.
Have 2 Storks with shield links and voilĂĄ, there you go.
BS at 3AU is out of the question.
That was nerfed for good reason.
I could live with T1 BS at 2.2AU and T2 BS at 2.4AU.
aww youâre spoiling my fun.
but the CN does not give more than the RF they give the same the RF has the advantage of lower sig. CN is also 5 more PG and 5 less CPU
i have argued that the CN should get more tank to offset the larger sig but seems just another area in eve CCP wants flat better rather than give and take
neither the Marauder nor Blops needs to go any faster. and you can get 2.2 very very easy as is
I tend to agree, as AU can be augmented by the player.
Marauder is designed to be slow, and Blops are already fast/maneuverable.
So that leaves T1 BS for 2.2
but again thats already doable with very cheep implants and you go over that with one low or rig. they are fine where they are with warp speed. as many have pointed out even when everything warped at the same speed they were used pretty much the same. warp speed is not the problem itâs just something that is easy to point to
If weâre including links/implants, then i guess i can include slaves and links into my armor buffer BS too right? Do i need to say what cruiser can get a 200k EHP tank and 1500 dps if weâre going to include links and implants into the mix?
Links/implants muddies the discussion, weâre talking base EHP. If both ships are linked/implanted/boosted whatever, the one with the higher base EHP will still be higher.
A gila can get those tank numbers if you put all your mids into tank., as buffer tank. Which leaves you with no tackle and no way to control cap. Drop an LSE or DCU, and youâre not at 100k EHP unless you heat, at which point its not a sustained tank.
If you use an XLASB+LSE, then youâre not buffer, if you run into sufficient dips, youâll die inbetween reps and then youâre not utilizing all your potential buffer.
Keep in mind i said 100k EHP and 1000dps. There isnât a HAC that can do that. The eagle can get 100k+ EHP, but it cannot do 1000dps at the same time (i donât think it can even do 1000dps if it was purely dps focused).
As its been pointed out, RF/Cal LSEâs are identical in HP stats, the caldari one is for when youâre tight on CPU, the RF LSE is for when youâre tight on PG, the RF also offers a slight bonus to sig, but is pretty much negligible, especially on a gila.
Damn, I thought it was 800+ dps?
That would be 2x shield extender II, 2x adaptive invulnerability field II, em hardener II and 3x federation navy magstabs with neutron blasters and heated void = 814dps and 109k ehp.
Still 721 dps cold.
Its what was originally quoted. Your boy was just using a gila at 800dps as his best example. Which ofc, isnt a HAC.