Make sense of this Battle for me

high-sec
pvp

(Agent K Portophia) #1

I am completing the Rogue Swarm Holiday fest… I see another pilot doing the same. Fun times. Then this 3rd Pilot, “Aunt Tom” comes in and is firing at the other pilot. Haste move, and I’m sitting in my BATTLESHIP Fully armed with 6 -200mm AutoCannons and 1 dual Anode Particle Stream. Fusion ammo. Again, my Apocalypse BATTLESHIP, I scan the Pilot and see a Vexor who is half damaged, So I lock on. Trying to stop the “picking on noobs so that New Eden can make it past 2019”…

This is 7K HP vs 1K HP as he already had damage. I’m fully weaponized and I lost by a mile! I did nothing. my 90mil isk ship against a puny 9mil ship. I never do PVP… This is why. No way would I have lost this “in real life”. I have 7 high slot against his 4. 50 mil ISK bounty(which is half my bank account) for Aunt Tom with capsuleer explosion, careful he/she is obviously some sort of weapons and shields god.

CCP - Do the math for me, Should I just by a shuttle? Can I cheat to and get 100K HP in a armar shuttle with nukes? I know I’m a noob, but if we can’t repel these douches in High-sec, then it’s Game over guys.


Top reasons why a new player should consider not playing EVE Online
I'm becoming disheartened
(Quelza) #2

Frankly your Apoc fit was absolute garbage. You put frigate-sized weapons on your ship so your ship bonuses didn’t apply and your damage output was abysmal. You absolutely would have lost this ship “IRL”. How could you have possibly thought you had the advantage?

In layman’s terms, you bought an expensive replica sword, broke off the blade, replaced it with a foam tube the size of a knife, and then tried to cut a dude 25 feet away from you. And then you were confused as to how you could have possibly lost your ship.


(Agent K Portophia) #3

Well its all I can afford and am skillset for. The Battleship was a gift for completing the last Rogue Swarm event. I guess ships mean nothing. If my weapons fit it, and I’m one shot-ing every NPC around me, then New Eden needs to level the playing field.

Else I invite all 5 year plus players to come to High Sec and wipe us out, because there IS NO BALANCE. Nuff said. Sorry about my puny weapons and lack of skills. Even at my 2x speed it takes time to skill up. Hopefully @AuntTom hangs out more and shoots us on sight, since we can’t do anything about it (currently). That is a game over for sure, Sad when EAs Battlefront 2 has more balance in its ship fights.


(Obil Que) #4

Pro tip: Stop throwing money away on bounties. They gain you nothing and are a total waste of ISK.

Use your ISK to get better (appropriate) weapons for your ship and don’t fly above your skill level. Case in point:

  1. AutoCannons are not the proper weapon system for an Apocolpyse. Read the traits of your ship and realize that it should be using Large Energy Turrets not Small Projectile Turrets (or Small Energy Turrets for that matter)
  2. Your “fully weaponized” battleship maybe was doing a couple hundred DPS using those unbonused and incorrectly sized weapons. Depending on your range, tracking, and speed of the enemy ship, that would quickly drop off to half if not a quarter of that damage due to the short range nature of the weapons and your skills (which I’m assuming are under par for the ship given what you fit to it).
  3. Your opponent has a tank also. Given your anemic damage due to incorrect weapons systems, he probably was repairing otherwise mitigating all your damage.

Fly a ship appropriate to your skill and learn how they work. Join a player corporation with a combat focus or a teaching corp like EVE University. It will do wonders for your game.


(Ralph King-Griffin) #5

ok, that fit is not anything even remotely resembling “Fully armed”.
im not having a go at you but this needs critiquing.

do we have an up to date fitting resource we are linking newbros?


(Agent K Portophia) #6

Read my post above. All weapons MUST rank according to the system they are in. I assumed they did, or else you’ll have a very garbage experience as a noob. I’m not skillset for large turrets, maybe I will be one day, guess I can’t go outside until I’m a beast.

Again I urge all Top Skillset pilots to come to high Sec, you can take down a an entire game studio with little effort.


(Ralph King-Griffin) #7

nope, not how eve works.

read the bonuses the ship gets.


(Obil Que) #8

You put frigate weapons on a Battleship to fight a cruiser.
If you don’t have the skillset for large turrets then you shouldn’t fly a ship that uses large turrets

This is not a game design flaw. You were using equipment beyond your capabilities and got beaten.


(Ronha Ottrit) #9

Assuming this isn’t a troll, unfortunately the good and bad thing about EVE is the research that goes into flying a ship. EVE Uni has a Wiki with simple fits for every ship type, I’d encourage you to utilize it. As a 10 year veteran, I still use fitting sites to tweak my fits. https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Main_Page

Choose something you want to do and look into what ships are best to fly it. Apocs can be a little skill heavy to fly, but overall can be more focused then Minmatar or Gallente ships.


(Agent K Portophia) #10

@Ronha_Ottrit Give me a logical reason to do the research please. I choose to be an Amarr, so I only want to dedicate to their ships. Do they not have a ship that can hold up against Minmatar or Gallente? Do I not have free choice and a level playing field…

Spend all that time just to get wrecked knowing that there is no balance to be had. That’s gaming back in 2005, the industry has grown since then. Players demand equality, you know as well as I that you can fly into high sec and destroy all us noobs, and we can;t stop you unless we play and play and play and get destroyed and destroyed and destroyed then maybe after all skillbooks are learned and all university stuff is known, maybe then one of us can win a battle. Worth the effort?

New Eden is beautiful, but it has a huge balance issue. Does matter that all alphas just got a bunch of ships when you can easiliy be destroyed in your own backyard.

I vote for equality! My best Noob weapon that I’ve strived for does the same damage as your level 10000 lasers when you enter OUR beginner High Sec area. Maybe then we can remind you of what its like to be destroyed ever time to go for a flight. Same thing goes for Low Sec, Our weapons scale up as do yours and so on and so fourth. Look, that would mean skill is actually involved. :wink:

I heart how everyone gives links to find out more “outside of Eve”… you know what that tells players? The the games design is so bad, community had to write books on how to navigate their game. That is pathetic, but heck I’d outsource my job to a bunch of people willing to do it for free if I could as well.

Imagine New Eden with a level playing field… Now the ships matter, flight matters. That means little Aunt Tom the Bully doesn’t come into High Sec picking off mission go-ers, because we could fight back.

Until they change it, Noobs have no point in playing honestly. Even WoW levels all weapons in Arena matches.


(Giddy McFee) #12

You’re obviously set in your opinion so little said here will change it. As has been said above, you should look at the traits of the ship and adjust accordingly and/or fly ships to where your SP are strongest. You asked for the action to be critiqued, it was. You can either choose to take that on board and learn from it or not.


(Caldari Citizen 90030978) #13

Lol. I lost my first BS to 2-3 frigates, within 30 minutes of undocking. Instead of going to the forums to complain, I came here to see what I did wrong and figure what I could do better. It turns out flying one with bare minimum skills was a very bad idea. If you can not fit your ship to play off its bonuses, that should be an indication not to pilot it. In fantasy game terms, you rolled a mage but equipped him as a warrior and are wondering why your sword does crap damage


(Disney's Magic Kingdom) #14

Actually there is much “real life” precedent for a smaller clever fighter beating the snot out of a larger unskilled foe.


(Disney's Magic Kingdom) #15

Also frankly, based on what sounds like your absolute trash fit BS would have died to a properly fit and piloted rookie ship.


(Wander Prian) #16

The larger the ship is, the more it requires skills to be effective. If your ship had a valid fit with large lasers, a good armor-tank and some capacitor and tracking computers in the mids, you might have bested him. Most likely be would have just flown away as there was nothing stopping him (you didn’t have a warp disruptor).


(Chocolate Pickle) #17

Just in the 1-in-1000 chance you’re not trolling, look at this Apocalypse fit:

This is what you should aim for when fitting modules.


(Ralph King-Griffin) #18

Chocolate Pickle, i know you know this.

not to detract from your point, good though it is , thats a fleet fit.

for any newbros interested in fitting an apocalypse properly (im pretty sure the op isnt) that fit is designed to operate with a logistics wing (healers) and would scale excellently with numbers and support

for solo mission/site running you would need to have a local large repair module instead of a plate and a bunch of heat sinks instead of those application modules.


(Raiz Nhell) #19

I think we can all agree that the fleet fit above is still a lot better than any Apoc with 200mm autocannons, for just about anything…

While the above is a fleet fit, this one might be better to aspire to for PVE
https://o.smium.org/loadout/131543

Caveat: I just searched O.smium for PVE apoc fits, I have no idea if this one works.


(ShahFluffers) #20

Let me have a crack at this and perhaps I can illuminate some issues the OP is having.

To start… EVE does have balance, but it is VASTLY more complicated than you think.

  1. “Bigger is not better.” Instead, ships and their weapon systems are more like “rock, paper scissors” than “rock, bigger rock, dynamite.”

Some examples of this:

  • One of my first kills was 6 months into the game. It was a Tech 2 Battlecruiser. I was in a ■■■■-fit Cruiser backed only by other Frigates flown by players just as “green” or younger than myself (and back then, we did not have skill-injectors).
    The Battlecruiser was heavily tanked and geared towards fighting ships larger than itself. It could not defend itself against my lowly cruiser and the frigates assisting me.

  • After years of being in the game, I was part of a group of seasoned PvPers. We were relatively small, but we knew our stuff and could hit hard. We heard that there was a fleet of hostiles in a mixed bag of ships ranging from Frigate to Battleship (with a possible Carrier on standby).
    My group piled into Battleships and Logistics (healing ships), got a person to ready up his own Carrier (just in case), and flew over to the hostile fleet.
    We were outnumbered by a fair bit… but eventually we wiped out most of the biggest hostile ships before the rest of them realized that they couldn’t punch through our defenses (even though we could not hit the frigates and some of the cruisers). They turned around and fled.

Now, what do these stories have in common?
Both times I was part of a plan that took advantage of a target ship('s) inherent weaknesses and/or maximized the strength of the one I was flying.
This takes time and experience.
This is why so many veterans recommend that newbies stick to smaller, cheaper ships at first. To learn the ins and outs of the games mechanics, what ships do what, and how to take advantage of it all.

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  1. The game is not going to tell you how to do anything. You have the freedom to fit however you want and utilize your equipment in whatever way you please.
    However, keep in mind that this is no guarantee that it will be effective or efficient.

Most of those the ship fittings and guide that players put together and show? Those are made by people who learned the system. They found, through trial and error, what works and what doesn’t.
You can use this available knowledge as a starting point… but ultimately the onus is on you to find what is effective and efficient within a given situation.

Your Apocalypse may have been effective in taking out small NPCs… but the battle you just experienced with another player shows that it is not so in a PvP fight.

Now you can turn this around and fit differently so that next time you can stand a better chance. Or you can learn how to assess the danger and run away (which is ALWAYS an option and never a “bad move” when you are in doubt).

The phrase, “knowledge is power” is very applicable here. :slight_smile:

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  1. The devil is in the details.

More than most games, EVE’s balance is less at the “macro-level” and more in the “1% here, 3% here” level.

  • A battleship may have massive tanking potential and be able to fit a large array of different utilities and modules… but it is VERY slow and consequently will not be able to dictate when, where, and sometimes how it will fight.
  • A battleship sized weapon may be able to deliver crushing damage… but it can’t hit anything at close range.
  • A frigate can fly fast, warp fast, and buzz around a baddie with ease… but it can easily die if something manages to eliminate its speed advantage.
  • A frigate is extremely versatile… but because of its limited fitting options it can really only do one or two things very well. If caught in a situation where it is at a disadvantage, it will have to bug out. It is not very good at “holding the field.”
  • Frigate weapons can track most targets with ease, but they are pretty much pea-shooters unless used with the correct ship in the correct way. In your case, fitting such small weapons on a battleship may allow one to take on small ships, but they won’t do much against anything larger.

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  1. Yes, veteran player have an advantage in terms of skills, money, and equipment. And?
    That doesn’t mean you should simply “give up” or "wait for your skills to train."
    Think AROUND the problem at hand.
  • If your opponent generally flies solo, get some friends and gang up on the person.
    Not “one-at-a-time” like those foot soldiers in those martial arts movies. I mean blob the motherfucker. Your individual ships damage may be merely a bee sting to the older, more experienced player. But enough bee stings kill.

  • If your opponent flies big ships, go small and mobile. Harass the guy and stay out of range. Employ ranged weapons if you can.

  • If your opponent flies really fancy stuff that is fast and hard hitting… get some Electronic Warfare ships and throw sand in his face.
    NOTHING pisses a veteran player off more than being jammed out by a Griffin with loaded with targeted ECM modules.

  • If your opponent flies in a group… take a page out of the Suicide Ganker’s handbook. Lure them to a station’s undock point, have everyone get in to cheap, high-DPS destroyers, have everyone undock at the same time, then choose the closest and most expensive target and focus fire.
    Watch said expensive ship melt like ice cream in the desert.

Oh… and for disclosure… yes… I was taught and used all of the above as a newbie. :slight_smile:

GOOD TIMES!!!


(JuuR Zibaoo) #21

@Agent K Portophia

as i understand right … you attacked him and got blown and now you coplaining about that?

dont use a battleship to early … skill up to cruiser class and use the right weapons on the right ship
in real life you do the same … you dont attack with AK47 when sitting in a battleship … you fit heavy guns on that

why you thing are there so many ships and so many weapons … equality would mean there are no skills … only 1 ship for everything and only 1 weapon … thats kind of boring … sorry …
you want to play the game? learn to play it right … i am really sorry but as you got the ship as an event price its not much isk lost …
so now stand up and start again … ok ok … its cool to fly a battleship … in a few weeks you could fly a titan but you will get blown up again because you have not the full skills to fit it …

it will happen again and again and again until you learn how to play
eve will not be changed because you want it … that will not happen … you will learn or go … as easy … no other way … and as long as you dont start combat with a other in HS you are “safe” kind of safe at least … run your sites … get your loot or not …

join a corp and learn … eve is a waiting game … eve is a learning game … eve … is a lot but noch easy …

JuuR