I think you are confusing the PvP timer and the weapons timer here.
You don’t get a weapons timer unless you do an offensive action, even if someone else is shooting at you.
I think you need to log into Sisi and see for yourself.
How am I only just seeing this, good change, despite the snowflakes moaning this will help small gang/solo as well as large fights as suitcase carriers will be useful again. I kinda miss being able to hunt in a different region each day.
I’m just pointing out what most people missed. CCP slipped something past everyone, and it has the unintended consequence of punishing smaller alliances.
Safe travel for these capital pilots will require a Fortizar/Keepstar network. Larger alliances just won’t care because they have plenty of dps or warp strength to just leave.
So if your alliance is moving supercapitals to a new region, you will have to jump to Keepstars every time. Considering the cost of Keepstars this is not an easy thing to do.
Meanwhile PL, NC. and other large supercapital alliances will continue to strike from the tethers of undockable structures because they have the firepower to defend themselves for 30 seconds.
Small alliances have to invest in Keepstars, and large alliances do not. The large supercap alliances can put all that money toward more supercapitals, while the small alliance has to decide between 1 Keepstar or 4 supercarriers.
Is this really the “change” everyone wanted? Really?
back to the old mechanic . now you just have to remove that caps can use stargates
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Thanks for bringing this to our attention, unfortunately I am unable to reproduce this issue you seem to be describing here, if you could submit a bug report with as much details as you can recall, and I can investigate further.
A couple of quick things to clarify while discussing this:
- Ships are now subject to a period of invulnerability when leaving an Upwell Structure. This lasts for 30 seconds or until you take an action with your ship or lock something. During this time you cannot be targeted or tethered.
- Once this period has completed, your ship will be instantly tethered, there should be no way for an aggressor to attack your ship during this time
- If your ship is scrammed webbed etc, it cannot get tethered. EDIT: Forgot to add “or dock” to this
Thanks again!
Good try, pity you completely missed the point he was trying to make.
Might I suggest you read his post again and amend you reply, or just not reply at all.
The decision has been made and implemented - Large super heavy groups can move around faster (due to fatigue changes) and more freely due to sheer numbers. (Jumping 100+ supers to an Astrahus isn’t an issue, jumping 20 could be)
While smaller groups who own supers are disadvantaged due to the need of a keepstar at every point of travel to reduce the risk of being dropped by a larger group (due to tethering delay when jumping).
PS; There is no “bug” to report, just an unbalanced, biased (toward smaller groups) mechanic.
Apologies I was referring to this post where he was complaining about the new tethering mechanic (Which I presumed was the new 30sec undock invuln, but perhaps was the tether debuff) and being prevented from docking/tethered due to being warp scrambled:
Being warp scrambled/disrupted preventing docking/tethering is not new, this has always been the case.
No it is not new - it just wasn’t an issue until recently.
Was - Jump, move, tether.
Is - Jump, wait out timer, tether.
The change as I said is biased against any smaller group who wants to move capitals and or supers about.
You succeeded in creating a meta where the large capital/super groups can freely move around New Eden pretty much unhindered - While smaller groups will constantly need to be on the defensive, with fewer options for growing and taking new space.
Large groups can solidify their current holdings AND take new space when it suits them.
Fortress Devle - PanFam (or whatever they call themselves now) renter empire.
Did CCP learn nothing from Serenity?
Mega groups dominating the arena creates a stagnant arena… It’s too late to try to get rid of mega groups but it isn’t too late to save TQ from the same fate as Serenity…
Jump fatigue changes would have been awesome, if they didn’t favour the mega groups so much…
Prior to citadels there were stations and POS. For a POS a pointed ship could fly within a POS’s shields and break the target lock. In the case of stations docking was permitted as long as the ship had no weapons timer, was in range and wasn’t a super carrier or titan.
Citadels tethering mechanic broke the previous behaviours of both POS and Stations and eliminated the ability for a pointed ship to achieve a position of safety through movement alone.
The advantage gained by citadels was that a citadel provided a similar radius of safety as a POS, automatic repair and a reduction in the mind numbing task of selecting a spot on a station model that hopefully wouldn’t cause a jumping ship to clip the space gargoyle on the edge of the station model and send a ship 300km’s off in a random direction.
The citadel tethering mechanic has not been changed, yet the practical implications of a change to the jumping mechanic has altered its application. For a CCP Dev to state that one mechanic has not changed when a change has been applied to a precursor component is very frustrating. The concern almost pointedly missed and ignored is how the change has affected travel via jumping, as prior to the change jumping to any friendly citadel was very safe, due to the tether protecting the jumping ship instantly after loading grid.
With one of the major benefits of citadel tethering mechanic removed, it is arguably less risky to jump to a station when moving than jumping to a citadel, as at least a station will still permit docking when pointed where as a citadel will not.
If stations have less risk, it is a distinct deviation from the increasingly narrow path of safety under which citadels were originally sold.
Apologies if my response was frustrating, that was never the intent. As you may have spotted, I’m a QA Analyst, so I’m purely here to discuss potential issues with the features this thread relates to, as they were designed. I hope you can understand why its not my place to discuss the implications, effects or problems with the features. I misconstrued the original post and thought he was discussing something that was broken.
What is your concern actually? The jump was safe and is still safe now, there is no difference. You know you are invulnerable for 30s (or even 60s?) after a cyno jump, where nobody can lock you? What’s the difference to instant tether, I don’t get it?
Sorry Tipa - You’re Wrong.
When you jump now you cannot tether, you have no invulnerability - You can be pointed as soon as you appear on grid [and can be for the first 30 seconds] unles the structure is large enough for you to dock.
The only time you are “invulnerable” is when undocking from a citadel, which is sort of pointless as you tether as soon as you undock anyway.
NB; I have tested this on both TQ and SISI.
Carrier jumps in, decloak Arazu, point carrier - you have 30 seconds in which to point anything jumping to a citadel, where the ship is not invulnerable and cannot tether.
I did in fact manage to point a (friendly) carrier on a Fortizar while he was trying to dock after jumping - and what makes that worse is, I live in Rural Australia where server tics and shitty Aussie internet mean I very often miss with my first attempt.
Thirty seconds vulnerability + having to then move to tether = bad mechanic for small and medium sized groups.
Wouldn’t part of a QA’s job be to see that anything newly introduced is balanced?
The very real “potential issue” with this feature is that it limits game play options for small to medium sized groups.
From my point of view (and many others), this new timer is broken - Whether it is working as intended or not is not the point.
Fatigue mechanics for years were “working as intended” - That didn’t change the fact they were game breaking and severely broken. It just took years foe Devs to listen to players and make it more playable.
Previous sov mechanic were changed to “remove the grind” associated with sov - Only to be replaced with far worse grinding built into structure mechanics and to compound it, Sov Wanding as a mechanic has sucked from day one.
There is enough risk involved with using the biggest ships in Eve without making them vulnerable loot pinata’s every time they jump - We want to use our caps in fights, that can’t happen if CCP keep making it harder for us to get them to fights.
Try jumping in a carrier onto a grid that has 300 to 400 enemy caps waiting for you - Being able to tether quickly (by moving) gave you a chance to take in what was going on around you - Now you jump in and can be dead pretty much before you load grid.
No tethering while fighters are out - Great idea.
No tethering for 30 seconds after jumping - Bad idea
You could even go so far as, no tethering once a target is locked (mainly for dreads and titans)
But please at least give us a chance to see what’s on grid and check out the fight before we and up as a lossmail back in our home station.
You designed a whole ship to help stop headshotting FC’s and at the same time you make headshotting any capital ship so much easier. We may not be as important as an FC but we do deserve to be able to load grid and join a fight before losing billions of isk.
NB; Sorry for the ramble - I’m part of a medium sized sov holding alliance and the idea of using my caps for defensive OP’s only is damned annoying.
This mechanic is an issue for me as we have just been told we will not be deploying caps for a while due to the new tethering mechanic, they will be used for defensive OP’s only.
There is meant to be up to a 60s jump invuln period. This period is like gate cloak and ends as soon as you take an action.
Are you saying this period doesn’t exist? Or that it doesn’t matter because there is the 30 second gap.
Also you can just not jump straight onto the citadel just like peoe doing jumps without pos used to do all the time. Then cloak.
Firstly, thank you for taking the time to reply.
Then why are you here? Is this thread being monitored by someone who’s duties cover post-implementation review, as your role of QA is clearly out of scope for the current argument’s context?
The design was to make jumping less safe because special interest groups felt their gameplay of hunting supers and titans was being unfairly impacted, whined loudly, resulting in the present state of the jumping/tethering mechanic.
Why was this change made to every ship that jumps? Titans and Super Carriers would have been prime candidates for an isolated first pass and are arguably the most egregious violators.
Jumping to a citadel used to be a level playing field for what’s called in the FPS space low-ping-whiners and high-ping-bastards, in that the jumping ship was guaranteed to get a tether by performing almost any movement action and completely irrespective of geographical or technological capabilities of the subject’s internet.
Now every ship that jumps has to wait for multiple timers while it jumps, docks, undocks just to get tether before moving on again, further punishing those who’s only deficiency is that their internet sucks and doubly punishing those who’s citadels are pointing 180 degrees from the direction they wish to travel.
You are either mistaken or you are experiencing a defect. As has always been the case, you receive a 60s invulnerability when you jump to a cyno. As of this release this is also displayed in the top left of your screen as a blue timer. The important thing though that you may be missing is that this is cancelled as soon as you move your ship.
I’ve just tested this myself and everything seems to be working as expected. If the first action you take after jumping is to press the dock button, it is literally impossible for anyone to point your ship. If you are still experiencing this issue with the above information taken into account, please submit a bug report with some details about when you reproduced this issue, let me know its ID and I’ll investigate further. Or if that’s not viable, let me know when you reproed this before and with which characters and I’ll be happy to check out the logs.
Above is a pretty good example of the value I can provide in this thread.
It depends on the feature, but generally yes, that can be a part of the responsibility of a QA Analyst. However, discussing balance on the forums is not part of that.
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Nerf cynos.
This may well be an intermittent bug then as I just tried it again and could not lock my mates carrier straight after jumping.
As for the timers in the top left of the screen, there are now so many of them for so many different things it is hard to tell which is which at times.
Do you also experience an issue where you tell a ship to dock at a citadel, but after it exits warp and loads the grid it just sits there tethered without docking?