Speaking of which: What is your stance on this installment. Do you agree there should be more Yulai Colosseums where bots are being publicly lynched by other users? Dumb twitter posts that no one sees are one thing. Actual fun at destroying bot users in EVE in space is a lot more satisfying.
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I like both, the name and shame is solid but the Colosseum is just plain fun. Funny thing, the link you gave in the other candidates thread? https://zkillboard.com/system/30005204/reset/group/547/
Third line down . . . yup, I got the final blow on the Nid
I think public pressure will work far more efficiently than the silent war in the background but both, together will be the best. Bottom line? Bots bad, anything that helps combat them? Good.
m
Oh, and thank you for tossing the question to me as well, I do appreciate it.
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Oh god the vegetable is off the shelf and wants to be another goon on the CSM again.
Advocate of the worst changes that ruined hisec in total accordance with his goon masters.
Nothing makes me want to vote against CSM more than Mike the vegetable. Shoo.
Lol, so much in that I have no idea where to begin. Goons? Me? Vegetable?
Let’s start with the last one . . .worst change in hisec. Out of curiousity, in your opinion, what is/was the worst change in hisec?
m
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Hi Mike,
Over the years your Magic School Bus program has helped countless new players get a good start in New Eden. I believe if you’re elected as a CSM member that you’ll also apply the same conviction and determination to that as you have with the Magic School Bus program.
Having said that, I do have a few questions.
What is your viewpoint on Faction Standings pertaining to anchoring structures in High Security space?
The removal of player Corporations needing positive Empire standings has caused excessive proliferation of structures all offering the same services. The goal is to make ISK with them but due to the current amount of structures and the ease of anchoring them, that goal is very difficult for small Corps to accomplish.
What is your viewpoint on adding more content to the mission pool for solo PvE players?
Over the past couple of years CCP has put a lot of effort into creating group PvE content which has been mostly unsuccessful. I think that content would be accessed a lot more if it was scaled down and added to the mission pool for solo PvE players.
If elected to CSM, will you actively hold Q&A sessions with players via Forum threads?
Over the years there’s been very few CSM members that have interacted with the playerbase here in the Forums. Granted the CSM can’t actually direct CCP to work on specific things but they can relay the concerns of the playerbase directly to CCP, ultimately creating better relations between CCP and the playerbase.
That’s it for now, I’ll probably have some other questions later. In closing I’d like to wish you lot’s of luck and much success in being elected to CSM.
DMC
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It still drives me crazy that faction criminals can DOCK in enemy territory and you ask me about anchoring structures? Yeah a little common sense would go a long way
Would love to see it. but you have to admit the abyssal space stuff has been a huge leap forward for PvE and PvP. Not knowing exactly what you are going to get so the mission is not solved before it starts? Love it.
As I have said before? The trick is getting me to shut up and stop asking questions. If folks want a Q and A? I will do what I can WITHIN the boundaries of that pesky old NDA. If they want me to drop in on a podcast? ditto.
Thanks for the questions, run (DMC)
m
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Hey no worries, for everything that is covered by the NDA, we can always post a cute kitten, playing with fur-balls videos or something else.
Ah, yes: on your first run I thought you wouldn’t be of much use since you were out of touch about how and why PvE players play PvE (I mean, you would run your PvE with PvP fits…), and here you come again, loving something PvErs downright hate.
I will save myself some work by linking you what I and many PvErs have to say on the topic of PvE:
Also:
The first link you gave was what I was talking about. More jigsaws and fewer ‘this is the way to do it’ I see the abyssal space as a step in that direction and YES I understand that the Gila is a common solution. Then they brought in the triple frigate sets. I hope to see more iterations and a wider choice of solutions.
Your second link had this
Damn, that does sound like abyssal or newer PvE and not another alt tab to Eve-survival. (I appreciate all that site has done for players over the years but face it, knowing exactly what, where and when does take the ‘fun’ out of PvE and makes it a chore. The last line is the one I agree with the most. Expanded on regularly.
Short, fun, but NOT predictable.
we do not want to drink the same Cola all the time.
m
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Jesuschrist, it’s so DIFFICULT to convey the idea… in a nugget, it would be this:
EVE PvP: random problem, drives to figure constant solutions
EVE PvE: constant problem, allows for random solutions
See, at one point I tried to rescue the damsel with a Punisher. It was slow as hell so I brought my Apo Navy and ended the beast out of its suffering. But I tried and didn’t lose my ship.
Constant problem, random solution.
Bring T2 Frigate. Bring cruiser. Bring BB
Bring missiles, drones, lasers, artillery, blasters
Bring armor, shield, active tank, passive tank
And the solution will work eventually. Then try another. And another. And another. Short of time/money? Do it by the book. Also you will feel rewarded. I lost my first Apo Navy in its maiden trip. PvE is tough, but eventualy you get the grasp of it. It would be perfect if it got a new mission a little more often than once in 7 years.
Allows for experimentation, crativity, setting your own goals, challenging yourself, and oh well doesn’t requires investing 15 hours of mission grinding (or 30 minutes of Rorqual mining) into a officially endorsed fit you might lose in 10 minutes (and do it repeatedly) until you figure how to use your constant solution to the random problem.
If PvErs wanted random problems to which figure constant solutions, they would PvP. They don’t, and that’s why the mroe PvE mimics PvP, the less succesful it is (abyssal sites are run by what? 3% of players, and they all are 5 years or older?)
But someone who’s rescued the damsel 50 times, maybe, just maybe, that person is NOT looking for a random challenge to solve with their swiss knife fit. Or n+1 friends. Or WCS and GTFO.
In a perfect world, EVE PvE would be a grind business for NPC rewards and a kind of endgame exclusive to PvE. A different but valid way to play EVE for those who don’t fit into the 1% who become long term players.
Even in a not so perfect world, CCP could deliver cosmethic rewards to the existing PvE (like ingame housing) so it was a longer term activity (FAI: skins for your space cottage). That would keep highsec lively and busy and would provide a goal different than go null or leave.
CCP has been losing players who don’t fit into the PvP mold, for no gain at all. Maybe they honestly don’t know how to keep PvErs subscribed. But I don’t think so. I think that they just don’t want to develop a PvE grinder on top of their preshious freak PvP social network. Everybody they talk about the matter says they don’t want it. CSM, event goers, social media users, it’s obvious people come to EVE for the nullsec gameplay. Just look at how well has gone the game since Rubicon opened full the nullsec rewards and expanded nullsec structure gameplay to all of New Eden…
PS: we want to drink the same Cola and bring our own different glass -otherwise we would PvP.
PPS: the “problem” can be pinpointed as a risk level. Random risk level, constant risk mitigation. Constant risk level, random risk mitigation. The amount of risk a person takes is constant, so people with lower risk thresholds will gravitate towards constant risk (old PvE) and will experiment there. Since there’s a lot more people with low risk threshold and EVE is a better game at high risk and a terrible one at low risk, EVE is failing to retain the majority of people with lower risk threshold. Expanding the possibilities and enjoyment of lower risk threshold would increase retention and population without changing the high rewarding experience of high risk.
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(you should start to think on running for CSM15)
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You take the works right out of my mouth. Remember the PVE round-table on discord 2 years ago?
I specifically said, I love do run mission like “Dread Pirate Scarlet” because of the randomness of (the same) risk but ultimately I will be victorious (that being the most important aspect of the damn thing but it seems the most simple form of communication cannot be understood by regular people).
The “Abyss” is the entire opposite of what I would ever imagine doing or thinking about doing to make money.
Now here comes a totally alien concept of things that no matter how many currency they collect or intelligent they believe they are, seems to resonate with those people.
Alien and super foreign concept of money:
If I cannot make money, I will run out of will not be able to do anything - the END.
Whatever you believe is very “challenging” and very cool is not - this is also very alien to the rest of mankind:
I will not participate in an activity where the chance of loss is higher than 80%.
Now also very foreign, this “activity” that could, maybe, or not (this or not being the most important thing to read and comprehend) is the sole reason, I won’t do it - period.
I do not mind the work before the reward but no reward on the planet would be valuable enough to outweigh a 80+% risk.
However, I will take a 1-35% chance of a loss with a constant reward over anything I have and will not have any control over.
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Are you talking about the same abyssal sites that I am running? 80% chance of loss? In what world?
Sorry but I just don’t get it. I have done T3 Filaments in various ships from Gilas (drones) to Sacris (Missiles) and 200Million ISK Phantasms (Guns) and I haven’t lost a single ship yet - come close once, because i did something really stupid - but there just isn’t a 80% loss chance.
I get that T5 or even T4 filament might not be for you - but the payout on T3 is decent and it allows for varyiety and is not a huge risk to your ship.
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CCP has spent the last 6 or 7 years adding higher risk-higher reward PvE, with resounding success as shown by highsec population. Given that they’re slow learners, maybe in another 10 years they will figure that some people just expect meeting waves of dumb bots and cull them as they please (bring whatever ship, whatever tank, and whatever weapon system) and then get ISK for it.
And not just any amount of ISK, but an amount of ISK which, proportional to what other players earn, feels satisfying. That’s because human mind works this way and nobody likes being the poorest millionaire and also because, in matters of leisure, people think that all time is equally valuable so if they put one precious hour into a game, they better get a reward for it that doesn’t feels bad compared to what some other obtains.
People are funny, they think that if they invest an hour and 1% chance of losing their ship and earn 50 million ISK, it’s outrageous that someone else invests an hour, risks 2% chance of losing his ship and yet earns 600 million for it.
CCP’s answer is “well, nobody prevents you to do the same as they do”. And people, who are a funny thing, think “I am the guy with the money, if you want it, you should give me what I want, not what you would like that I wanted”.
CCP spends endless time, money and resources to develop PvE in a game that’s riddled with PvErs, and yet PvErs flee and leave a deserted husk behind. All because PvErs are wrong, of course. 
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Let’ say that it’s more than what she wants for her money. What should cCP do?
- nothing. Paying customers come a dime a dozen
- ask somebody else who doesn’t does what she does and ask him what would he want, then implement it (FAI, ask the CSM, or a 10 year veteran PvEr who likes abyssal sites)
- figure what she wants based on what she does and develop new content according to it
I may be wrong about this, Mike; but I think you have entirely misunderstood what @Yiole_Gionglao was trying to convey, which is Abyssal sites are not what she and other pvers want.
In fact, Abyssal site are anything but what they want.
this comment of hers is in reference to Abyssal sites.
…
I was involved in another forum thread where “what pvers want” was discussed, and as I understand it what a substantial portion of the pve community is looking for is more missions where creativity (on the player’s part) is paramount.
This is a quote from my participation in that thread:
As I understand it, highsec players such as Yiole, and there are a lot of them, do not want “heart racing” excitement in their game play. As she and others, such as Jenn Aside have pointed out time and again…they want “puzzles” that have numerous ways of completion.
They will compromise on rewards, they will compromise on safety, but what they won’t compromise on is boredom or unease .
PVE players in highsec, as I understand it, want to solve npc mysteries. As an example: can I run this mission, which I normally run (and is recommended to run) in a battleship in a cruiser, or destroyer, and which one, and how will I fit it. How long will it take. I’ve got an hour and half to spend. Can I do it?
That kind of puzzle.
So, yes, more missions, more pve but open ended in the sense you can run it in a wide variety of ways, in a wide variety of ships and fittings. Taking as much time, or as little, as they like.
One of my best friends in game can afford anything he wants, he’s played since beta I believe. He flies battleships. He buys larger ships and flies them on Sisi. I asked him once why he didn’t fly these ships on Tranquility. He replied he didn’t want the excitement. He works, he has to sleep at night. An adrenaline rush is the last thing he wants, so he doesn’t pvp. He avoids any EVE situation that might cause an adrenaline rush., but he loves puzzles. How to fit the ships, how to run the missions.
So, as near as I can tell EVE players fall into one of two camps: those that are chasing that adrenaline rush, and those that aren’t. EVE can cater to both.
And did so in the past.
So, using the example of Abyssal sites, if you could run Abyssal sites in a wide variety of ship types, battleships, cruisers, destroyers, with a wide variety of fittings, short range, snipers, with a wide range of loot some of which was incredibly lucrative, like ded jackpot drops, and you could jump out of the site, if you got in over your head by experimenting with your “fun” fits, during your precious few hours of time between family obligations and work, then yes they might be exactly what PVE players have been asking for…for years.
But as they stand now, as near as I can tell, from a highsec pve player’s perspective they were just another waste of developer time, like resource wars…because they are a puzzle with a limited number of solutions, that, if run, cost precious relaxation time from real life with no suitable reward.
…
So, pvers like Yiole, of which there are, or were, a lot want more compelling mission puzzles, that stand a decent chance of being solved satisfactorily from the player’s personal perspective by using different tools (ships, and ship fits).
I’m not a mission runner; but I understand an experienced mission runner can fly an assault frigate and complete difficult lvl 4 missions, if they take the time.
It’s the design of the original missions pve players want replicated. They all (pvers) know they will fight red crosses. It’s their choice of tools that matter to them.
Abyssal space with it’s time limit denies them choice.
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Ah, so we disagree. That’s ok, I disagree with some people and agree with others. It is the nature of life. and politics.
I get bored of games that are pure grind, presolved. Oh I may play them for a little while but then my interest wains and I look for something more challenging. I leave that game for another. That is partially why I tend to fly pvp fits in pve, to not go for the solved path.
I like this because both are types of PvE play. And yes, I tend to be the ‘adrenal rush’ sort.
I also love the incursions which stopped being a rush activity a long time ago.
But the basic mission set? Are you just asking for an increase in the number of ‘static missions’ in the rotation? Maybe updated storyline missions that have some modern relevance? If so I agree with you in that but not that being the only PvE things that need work on.
One last thing
In this direction lies inflation and mudflation If Millions become petty cash then we will worry about being the poorest billionaire next. I am always curious what pewople think that a decent income is for PvE and what they will do when the rest of the world increases prices to move out of reach once again.
But that is economy partially driven by the players, partially driven by the rewards given to the players. It all intertwines. PvE does NOT live in isolation from PvP and no, I am not talking about ganking but about the customers that use up the stuff some PvE provides.
Lot more to be said but the bottom line is? We play different forms of PvE and I think I understand your position but if you believe that I ‘still don’t get it’ feel free to continue this discussion.
m
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I have to say this is the most succinct explanation for not only a difference between PvE’rs but also a lot of PvE (Mission/Mine) and PvP (CODE/Merc/etc).
When I was young 20 something I played a lot of LAN based Red Alert and later Counter Strike and finally Ghost Recon. PVP and smashing others was great, I could spend hours getting adrenaline rush and setting things up for the kill.
Now as I’m about to turn 40 have a family, I want to do relaxing less mind burdening tasks. I play eve to be in space and intentionally unwind from work, life, and stress. For many I knew in the HS indy world, this was why we stayed in HS, this is why we did missions or mined. I too want puzzles to think about…
I used to spend hours tweaking in implants into an Anarchy online chara so i could fit a gun I got 20-30-40 levels earlier than i should have been able to. The problem/puzzle was the fun, and pulling it off was the reward. I had a place i could go and do puzzles and focus if needed, or I could be out in the wilds blasting notum powers in PvP with my over tweaked guns - I had options…
This is exactly why we hated things like CODE and the idea that Eve can only be a PvP game. (I’m not saying Hs has to be perfect walled garden safe) The non-consensual violence against my prefered LIMITED game play for my 1-2 hrs of relaxation every few days sucks and takes its toll. The idea that just because they disagree with my play style, despite it having no effect on them, they can harras and punish my play style in a “sandbox” is the biggest thing that I think the classic PvP’rs just don’t get. I didn’t either when i was 20, young, dumb, and full of …
I don’t know what the solution is, not sure if there is one. But I LOVE space games, and I love Eve, but I just keep getting driven away (only to come back and try again). Maybe I need to try that other guys approach and just move to SiSi.
No question for you here Mike, but if you have a thought on how to deal with this conundrum i’d love to hear it.
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Can I ask by what metric you gauge this? @BlackPedro has claimed multiple times that activity in High Security space has declined by 40%. I am more inclined to believe him. So, the changes offering high-risk PvE are limited in scope for attracting participants. (maybe someone has a link to a graph somewhere?). We keep being given free Elements to the Abyssal sites. I have never used one, not interested in it, and have nine years of (almost) exclusive PvE play style behind me. I can look at Incursions that have gone from Elitism to opening up to Alphas to attract players. The Drifter Incursions, other than killing the Empress? Resource Wars is an admitted failure. This is not a healthy report card for High Security PvE.
If I wear my tinfoil, the garden of high-sec has been gradually poisoned by a block dominated CSM. So that Null-Sec carrots are more appealing. The Monthly Economic Report is now nothing more than a recruitment poster for said carrots. We have come a long way from T20’s support of BoB, or have we? But the last laugh is on the blocks - the MER is about as effective as feminine hygiene products advertised in the men’s toilet.
Sorry Mike to hijack your thread so. I am confident you’ll make a greater gardener, and can hopefully clear some of the weeds.
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I have kind of the reverse experience, I came to Eve when I WAS busy, kids in early teens job, house, etc. I can point to a Macharial loss that was wife aggro. ‘Honey can you come here for a minute?’ And yeah, I was a mission runner for several years, Miner on and off. I did small fleets and loved when Incursions came along because they were good to get in and out of for the time you had.
Then I got sick. Then I had time and I served on the CSM, did my best and talked to anyone and everyone. I have said it before, you guys kept me sane through the treatments. I finally returned to work and stopped running for the CSM and finished out my teaching days. Now I am retired and have the time to run and maybe serve again (depending on voters, of course)
Eve can and will fill the time you allow it. If I couldn’t play i would do the same theory crafting, what ifs, offline play. Hell i consider my blog playing Eve, just asynchronously.
Gods do I know that playstyle, that mindset. For me it was Everquest and grinding a troll shaman to be able to walk into Halas and right past the guards. If you cannot find the main way to play? the mainstream? you find the side things, your own path.
Quiet times? Eve is Space Sudoku, exploration, not for the drops but just to be doing something in space. These days I live in Rookie Help Chat. They are ‘my Corp’ and I do what I can to get the new players out there.
Yeah it pisses you off when your very limited time of play is interrupted by some asshat who decides you should pay extortion and/or die. But that is their gameplay. They may be 20 somethings burning off some steam or they may be eking their 2 hours of play out hoping to get a kill on the board. I do not begrudge them for trying, just try to make sure I am ready for it.
For you? I’d have to sit down and have a beer and talk to you to get a real sense of what might work for you but have you look into corps like Signal Cartel? Just a thought.
Do I have answers for everyone? no. But I don’t mind you asking.
m
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