Try using the distance from the asteroid instead of visual clues.
Note the large amount of people who are perplexed you are having issues. Your attitude is a turnoff.
1 Like
Bro I mined for like 6 hours today. Not one problem. You’re just humping the roid too close 
1 Like
Removed posts that were not in English, please use the appropriate forum sections.
6. Please use the correct language when posting.
The default language for posting on the EVE Online forums is English. Please use English when posting as a courtesy to other forum users, unless the forum channel is specifically created for discussion in another language as part of our localized language specific sub-forums.
I agree. But we’re dealing with technical limitations of a game with a lot of historical cruft. In addition to what @Moko_Musana mentioned, one thing I don’t see mentioned anywhere in this thread are how asteroids are animated to rotate in space. This is the cause of the unrealistic collision boxes.
This animation of asteroids should conceptually be tied into the bounding box. It would make sense: if big oblong rock is left-right, it should have a short and wide hit box compared to a rock that’s oblong up-down. If they were all animated like a spit-roasted pig, that would be fine, if creepy and uncannily to visually see. The bounding box wouldn’t really change as the cylindrical asteroids neatly rotated around their cylindrical axis.
The problem is we have asteroids that are animated in cockeyed ways, which means CCP has probably done the lazy - but computationally effective - thing and computed the bounding box of an asteroid at it’s largest bounds during its entire animation. And given us visually pleasing varying rotating asteroid rocks in the process.
Trying to do the “right” thing - allowing for cockeyed rotations and accurate ever-changing hit boxes - is computationally expensive. Plus, then there’s new physics that has to be answered: what is the “right” bumping mechanic to use if an asteroid bounding box rotates into a ship? You and I may have ideas of what it should reasonably look like, but EvE is at it’s core a poor submarine physics engine so now CCP has tons of edge cases of “infinite mass” asteroids bumping ships - imagine an orca getting ejected 500km/h out of a belt.
So on top of the accurate mesh problem, there is an animation + collision box coupling problem. I’m not entirely talking out my butt as a past life I worked on a rendering scene graph for military-grade engineering simulations - animations were a constant request but computationally too expensive.
3 Likes
Higgs Anchor is the answer to being able to align. Instant warp, and full speed. Also able to fill hold on the single asteroid.
buddha helped…
I don’t know. If I were to use an exhumer this is the one I’d use. I may have made a mistake with the rigs though.
No Higgs rig is indeed a big mistake. It’s even mentioned 2 posts above yours:
The extra EHP doesn’t matter when Higgs lets you better preempt getting into situations where EHP matters.
1 Like
Top left Skiff is 20.8s warp time but it’s a guaranteed 10 second warp in one cycle of MWD with 79k ehp
Top right is the same skiff but with the higgs. No difference when mwd is taken into consideration while only subtracting 2 seconds off of warp time as it reduces ehp by 8k and full speed with mwd on by 560m/s
Botton right is everything stripped down which reduces the ship’s capabilities to complete crap by also puts its warp time to just below 10 seconds. No difference verses one cycle of the mwd from the top left in practicality.
Bottom left is my favorite because of its ehp and while I’m not a miner I’m sure the afterburner being activated after warp is initiated will probably put the warp time down 10 seconds if not 8 considering the cycle time of the afterburner.
My mistake with the rigs was using trimarks and not transverse bulkheads. I can guarantee I will never die in the bottom left load out because it’d get into warp quickly enough while being able to actually handle some things whilst being a capable miner. Higgs isn’t worth it to me on these things considering the dire nerfs to the hull it produces.
1 Like
Also with the MWD you can cycle it pre-emptively and reduce your warp time to less than 5 seconds. However, this all presumes you aren’t sitting on top of warp in and are standing still.
Honestly if you’re worried about gtfo time I’d work on getting the skiff cap stable with the mwd on all the time like the pic above. This way if someone warps in all you’d have to do is simply turn it off and it’s a guaranteed 10 sec warp worst case scenario or like 4 seconds at best. Well, it depends where on the cycle the MWD is. It can take a tad longer than 10 if it’s near the end of its cycle.
Uh, what? You’re overly attached to the MWD trick. Just because it works great for cloak+MWD when hauling goods, doesn’t mean it’s great for all instances where ships take >10 seconds align time.
That’s because you’re comparing Higgs with trying to warp off with MWD trick, which is like comparing Olympic sprinters with Polio survivers on “who runs faster”. Have you not yet mined with a Higgs rig on before? Here is how mining with Higgs works:
Mine a rock. MWD is off – if you even fit one. Pre-aligned to station / tetherable structure / deep safe. Travelling at 75% of 36 m/s (using your own numbers) or 27 m/s. Hitting “warp” takes you 0 seconds to enter when mining in this configuration, which is a lot faster than 10 with the MWD trick and still faster than the 9.4 abomination you created.
In 1 minute you travel 1.6km, so you have 9 minutes of mining at this fast speed with 15km range of strip miners. If you are in a fleet receiving boosts then you can get more range and therefore stick around in the belt longer. Plus you can fit your ship to be stupid slow, more slow than 27 m/s, you can drift far less distance in the same amount of time, which means you can stick around in a spot way easier.
The only vulnerability is the X seconds it takes your fit to get to 75% speed to pre-align right after you land. After you land and pre-align, your entire mining session is 0-seconds-to-warp safe. If you’re bookmarking warpin spots in a belt in advance and have deep safes in the proper orientation with a cheapo frigate or something, that’ll indeed be your only vulnerable time period – b/c even when I give this advice, some people still try to create bookmarks in this slow fat brick!.
Compare that temporary X seconds vulnerability to the guaranteed 10s vulnerable time you have with the MWD trick. Sure, X will be larger than 10, but complaining about that and preferring the 10 is like saying two pennies are more valuable than one quarter.
Hope this elaboration helps clarify.
3 Likes
It literally tells you what align time with the higgs is in with one of the pictures I posted. It’d take 9.44 seconds for me with three tech 2 intertia stabilizers in the lows and 2 strip miners and no medium slots taken. In eve, your acceleration is going to scale with your speed so if with the higgs if outfitting tells you 9.44 seconds you’re going to take 9.44 seconds to reach 27m/s. No different than activating mwd once with way more ehp and while I said I’m not a miner I have mined in the past with similar set ups. I always got away before they were in range to scram. You do the higgs bro, I’ll stick to my true tried and tested methods.
Either you misunderstand, or willfully do not understand the relationship between velocity and align time tradeoffs when mining. I’ll try one final time by giving a concrete scenario:
- My ship has a Higgs and other things to make its velocity, slow as can be. Let’s say my 75% speed is 10m/s.
- Lets say it has 30s align time. This is way worse than MWD trick of 10s.
I land at a belt, and pre-align to a known safe point. Over the next 30s, I am vulnerable as I begin aligning.
You land at the belt next to me. You sit there and mine.
Over the next 10 minutes, I am travelling at my 75% speed of 10m/s and drift 6km from my rock, to stay pre-aligned. No biggie, my lasers have 15km range. Your ship stays in place. My 30s align time no longer matters, as after the 30s, I’m already pre-aligned and ready to warp with zero seconds. Yes, zero! No matter what the fitting window says!
Gankers come on D-Scan. I click “warp” and enter warp in 0 seconds – again, fitting window doesn’t matter. You begin the MWD trick and have a 10 second vulnerability with the gankers. Or let’s say you’re the fastest person at priming the MWD and pull off the trick in 4 seconds, then you only have a 4 second vulnerability. That is still greater than 0: I’m out of the belt already at this point, the gankers have only one target available left and it isn’t me.
That is the power of Higgs mining: how you fly your ships matters, as piloting skill is a thing even for slow bricks.
6 Likes
Fair enough. I always mined away from entry points so this way even interceptors would need seconds to get in range.
What I always find funny is there is literal stuff in game to save them and miners refuse to use it
Thank you for educating them on Higgs.
3 Likes
You cannot educate a brick.
No but apparently you can fly one safely and still pew pew them rocks
A fair assessment, but for the benefit of readers I want to outline additional real risks that eliminate that time delay, no matter if one is mining in high, low, or NPC null sec – and the risk is exacerbated if one is mining solo, which is what I did last year so I’m not entirely talking out of my ass here. So don’t take this as a criticism of how you personally fly, I just want to ensure readers are aware of the various kinds of threats out there.
One major theme of the risk that hunters use to reduce a miner’s reaction time is “cloaked ships”:
- NPC Null: A cloaked ship lands at the entry, and then slowboats to get within 5km of one’s self. Cloaked or unclocked friends of theirs then warp to the cloaked ship, and now they’re landing at 0.
- Low Sec: A cloaked bomber lands at the entry, and then slowboats towards one’s self. Once effectively at 0, they can then immediately decloak and begin targeting to apply a scram, which will take only a few seconds. Bombers have no decloak targeting delay. Note that this is applicable to the above security space as well.
- High Sec: A cloaked ship lands at the entry, and then slowboats towards one’s self. When they are effectively at 0, gankers jump into system and warp to the cloaked alt. Their gank ships land at 0.
- Any space: The above scenarios, but they already have a bookmark inside the belt/anomaly, so they land cloaked somewhere besides the warp-in entry point. Anchoring decloaking cans at warp-in points are therefore not a guarantee to work.
In each of these scenarios, the hunter is reducing the time delay the prey has to react. To how much? Well, the time it takes for a non-SeBo’d unskilled slowest-locking stealth bomber (Manticore) to lock a Skiff is 2.97s and the fastest is 2.23s for a Hound. It’s more likely even faster than that – shield modules balloon a ship’s signature radius so the fit shared above with 506mm is going to be locked by a Manticore in 2.23s anyway. So anything that takes longer than roughly 2s to get a brick into warp, is going to die under the above scenarios when piloted with a “wait for hunter to land and only then warp out of a belt/anomaly” mentality.
There are things hunters can use to reduce their lock time further (but there’s no need to, seeing how fast it is already) – and the only “fitting defense” is to reduce the sig radius of the Exhumer – but who fits an Exhumer to reduce sig radius? 
What this implies is how a ship is to be flown. Clearly, when relying on the MWD trick, the only guaranteed way to be safe is “get off grid as soon as someone else is in local”. Waiting to see interceptors or other things land at the warp-in point before trying to leave a belt is gambling whether the above scenarios are going to be the ones that play out today. In contrast, when Higgs-mining, even in NPC nullsec one can keep mining in a belt/anom when randos show up in Local. It gives one time to judge for one’s self what’s going on, and still retain the ability to guarateed-warp-off when any thing pops up surprisingly in the overview.
Thanks for coming to my TED talk.
(EDIT: Note for fairness: there are still weaknesses to flying Higgs-style, but they are the same that apply with MWD-trick style of piloting as well. It’s bumping. I’m never going to claim a particular style is 100% safe all the time, my claim is that Higgs-style tends to be on the “much safer” end of the spectrum. Nowhere is 100% safe, except inside a station.)
Thanks, I try to consciously limit my posting to just topics where I can be constructive. Unfortunately, even that has landed me at loggerheads with others that grace these forums – particularly those that have a vested interest in “always being right”.
3 Likes
Higgs mod wasn’t always there though and the last time I actually mined in an exhumer was years ago since literally flying a frigate for exploration yields more isk than mining.