Minmatar/Amarr Warzone : No more agents, no more farming

TLDR : you can use your FW farmer alts for something else. FW Discord

Today will be, we hope, a milestone to avoid the gravestone of our own corner of space.

The majority of Amarr and Minmatar Faction Warfare players agreed through their corps and alliances to lock down low-sec mission agents by swapping ownership of the systems where the latter are. The agreement comes into effect today and diplomacy is still ongoing to add more logos to the document above even at the temporary expanse of some of our RP traditions.

For the context, a FW Matari pilot can’t dock in an Amarr owned system and therefore can’t use the TLF mission agents there. And vice-versa : an FW Amarr capsuleer can’t dock and use 24th Imperial Crusade agents in a Minmatar controlled system. Only will remain the High Sec agents with their lower payout, ending in practice FW missions as an isk printing machine.

This decision doesn’t come lightly as it was our main source of income.

But those missions came at a price :

  • LP obtained through pvp and plexing became worthless market wise because devalued by the amount of LP gained and sold thanks to missions.

  • Faction Warfare was becoming more and more absurd with half of the militias just being pure pve/puller alts switching sides according to the market. The fate of the warzone was decided by the LP market, crashing and recovering : the so-called pendulum.

  • Faction Warfare missions were originally made easier to encourage people to run them in PVP fits and create interactions. Those missions have been since long min/maxed with insta-warp Jackdaws or bombers creating zero content.

  • People just kept leaving Faction Warfare only leaving an alt in both militias. Staying true to your side is a counter-productive strategy at the moment.

This experience will run provisionally for three months to collect data and draw attention to the FW and Low Sec situation.

Deleting missions on the long run is not a shared opinion. Most players want a rework of the missions to integrate them truly in the pvp lifestyle of Low Sec and FW. Waiting for the end of time and this rework, we decided to take the matter in our own hands.

What we are doing is the FW equivalent of asking Null Sec alliances to voluntarily unanchor their keepstars to fight super proliferation. But we will do it.

This decision is just the tip of a cross faction discussion which has been ongoing for months on a FW Discord. You can find this Discord and all the votes there : FW Discord. You are welcome to join it.

See you to pvp in a farmer free warzone we hope,

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This is only going to reduce content in the area, but ok. That doesn’t matter, because we all know the real reason for this isn’t to actually improve FW, it’s to starve out the LP market so the dude’s who have been farming LP for years (on the very same alts they whine about publicly, but secretly spend a few hours farming on each day…) can have a big payday.

Gotta love the metagame, hiding something like that under a (very thin) moral veneer.

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You are calling insta-warp jackdaw “content” ?

And actually we will loose doing it. Because right now we farm missions and wait for tier to go down.

Only thing we hope on the topic of isk/lp is that lp being less produced, plexing on both sides stay relevant market wise since it will become the main source of lp. Less LP produced also means markets will crash less since we won’t have anymore the inflation bubble.

People will earn less overall but their time plexing and fighting will be more relevant.

On a side note, no need of alts in our case : we do it with our mains.

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I’m saying they fund content. Reduce funds, reduce content. Simple math.

Hehe sure. :wink:

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Check Ushra’Khan history, you don’t need FW alts when your main is in a FW alliance.

They fund content without doubt : for who ? Null seccers have FW alts, Wormholers too. Everyone and their dog have FW alts.

If you have a FW farmer in place A and your main in a totally different place B, your farmer finances content in place B not A.

Simple geography.

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Ooo a name drop, nice argument. /s

Bro I was in U’K. And while I was in U’K, I sat outside a U’K POS in a stealth bomber and watched ships change hands between T.R.I.A.D pilots and out of alliance FW characters. I spotted those very same out of alliance FW characters farming plexes in those very same ships. Meanwhile T.R.I.A.D. pilots squawked the loudest about how farmers were ruining FW. But sure, whatever you say.

:unsupported premise:

:unsupported premise:

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I don’t FW, although I keep meaning to at least poke around in there and see what’s going on.

It will be interesting to see what an (attempted) lockdown of the mission agents will do on the (presumed) population of FW plexing bots.

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Long story short: Not much. Most of the pilots you interact with while plexing are neutral.

It won’t affect the plexing bots, just actual players trying to fund their FW PvP with missions.

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Unfortunately it won’t impact bots. Bots rely on plexing and any solution ( keep people locked in the plex for instance) can’t be changed by player actions.

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Sorry I should have been more clear. Locking out the agents won’t affect plexing bots. I meant, what the noticeable contrast between “FW with at least some people doing people things in it” and “FW with most of the people gone and only plexing bots remain” might do.

As in, will it make plex-bots easier to identify? Could we get a mass ban wave out of this? Will some other side effect emerge?

Regardless of possible ulterior motives (it’s EVE, we’ll always suspect ulterior motive), it should be an interesting experiment if you can carry it off.

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You really can’t bot FW missions due to the need to select/reject the appropriate missions, prioritize targets/keep range in the pockets, etc. So effectively they’re driving real players away and leaving the bots behind. vOv

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We are already bleeding members so well…

For minmatar side, Ushra’Khan and Smile ‘N’ Wave represent more than 70% of the kills in our militia whereas in militia chat we represent maybe only 10-20% of people logged in the chat.

So @Xuixien can scream “they do it for the market”, the sad truth is that when you compare stats, FW pvpers are already outnumbered by farmers who never fire a shot.

So real players ? Farmers could stay docked and have their isk fall from the sky, it would be the same content wise. If they were using their LP to fund their PvP in the warzone, it would create content but they don’t.

People stay in faction warfare for RP and social reason. Otherwise the only rational decision is to put an alt in each militia and get filthy rich and go play outside FW with your main.

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Good luck guys! Don’t let the crybabies distract you and stand by your ideals!

There’s gonna be a lot of whining and crying from people who are too spineless to handle a little change in their lives. Let the babies cry!

Wish you guys the best!

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Well, if it turns out to be a reason for reduced content, one can only hope that CCP pays attention to this and learns from this instead of doing another Blackout-esque “experiment”. Since “Insta warp Jackdaws” were already mentioned, one can only hope that CCP does something about the root of the issue and does not just treat the symptoms.

As far as I can tell, these missions were specifically designed to create content by showing up as beacons on the overview and as brackets in the probe window. It is not strictly the missions fault that content does not happen but CCP’s fault for introducing things that reduces their point to absurdity.

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This is a player enforced experiment? If yes I’m absolutely intrigued.

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Hopefully it will bring more content, the corp my main is i live near Minmatar FW space, it would be nice to find some fights there.

Good job, you’ve discovered the Pareto Principle.

So a minority of players make up the majority of kills. No ■■■■, lots of things in life like look like that. I bet if you broke it down, a minority of players would make up the majority of kills within each alliance. But that’s not an argument that the rest of the membership are “farmers”.

You’ve failed to consider the huge amount of bias this loads into your argument. Such as: active/skilled PvPers might be more likely to want to join the active/skilled alliances, and/or the active/skilled alliances might be more likely to recruit active/skilled PvPers. Notice how “farmers” isn’t even a factor here? That’s because your argument is non-sequitur.

It does not logically follow that because a minority of players make up the majority of kills, that the rest of the players are “farmers”.

Your reasoning is so bad I don’t even know where to start unraveling it.

Firstly, minority of players representing the majority of kills doesn’t prove anything about farming, rather it illustrates that a minority of players are very active and/or good at winning fights, and that these players tend to cluster in the same groups (corporations/alliances). This is a no-brainer for anyone who’s taken even a crash course in social science.

Secondly, the conclusion that “farmers outnumber PvPers” does not necessarily follow from the fact that 70% of kills come from 20% of players. People can be logged in and not PvPing or farming, or they can be trying to PvP but getting blown up or failing to find a favorable engagement.

Furthermore, you’ve failed to take into consideration the large number of neutral players who live in FW space and provide content to FW players, and who do in fact use FW alts to fund their (local) content creation. You have this idea that everyone from NullSeccers to Wormholers are farming the crap out of FW, when the reality is that LP is so depressed at the moment (by your own admission) that farming LP represents a net loss of income compared to many other activities in 0.0 and J, further demonstrating the lack of cogency in your argument.

I really hope the reasoning and argumentation you’ve presented here is not representative of the thinking that took place among the people who organized this event.

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LP is depressed depending on the side of the pendulum you are in. Amarr & Caldari LP is right now worthless whereas Gallente & Minmatar is up.

If you don’t know about this, you probably forgot everything about how the warzone works.

Anyway no use talking to you : you are twisting basic facts of FW to serve your arguments since obviously you have a beef with U’K. Let other people ask questions.

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This is only true relatively. Absolutely, all these numbers are all way down compared to when I was in FW.

TTFY.

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The point is to encourage more content to happen in the plexes, decrease mission farming, and provide actual data for CCP to use to determine if Deleting FW missions is really beneficial for the warzone.

There are a billion things I disagree with, but this is something I’m willing to do if not for CCP to take a look at FW more closely.

People who use FW to fund their ■■■■ will still be able to do so, it’s available in cal/gal wz to mission farm.

The point is to encourage more activity in the plexes, if it’s farmers in the plexes that’s fine. Plexing contributes to warzone control and fw mission running doesn’t.

Generally I agree with you on most of the social elements you pointed out though. The WZ was stagnate and zkill shows that many people on both sides favored farming kills in a small radius around their citadel systems rather than roaming. I don’t think that will change to be honest, but that’s my opinion.

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