And what about all the people who wouldn’t be ok with it because it destroys the economy?
It won’t destroy the economy Etch, destruction will happen, it isn’t like ganking is curbing millions of mining hours a week, or PvE activities. The same people would do the same thing, make less, and not have the once in a while visit from ganking. If it gets boring, click a button, and in 24hrs (or a set time) you are back into PvP land.
JJ
If ganking isn’t curbing mining or PVE then why does it need changed?
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Why not just play EVE Echoes? It’s like EVE Online, but you can’t PvP anyone in high-sec.
What’s the point of basically having two EVE Echoes?
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Etch come on man. The argument is not that Ganking is some huge game-breaking deal. It imposes gameplay (force if you will) on a player that doesn’t want to engage. Ganking adds little value to the game, thus the argument to remove it completely or give an out for those that don’t want to be a part of someone else interfering in the game play you are paying for.
JJ
The point here isn’t asking all gankers to leave, but thanks for the recommendation. But to keep people in the game. Find that middle ground that can work, not everyone will get everything, but something less unbalanced then what we have today.
JJ
see this is where we disgree fundamentally. The value is as follows:
-It results in destruction which keeps material and module prices in check
-It introduces a threat in space where otherwise be no threat
-That threat means players have to make decisions as to whether they address that threat or ignore it. i.e. meaningful choice. An example of this for a miner is……. Do i fill my low slots with mining upgrade modules for max yield? Or do i sacrifice yield and fit a damage control for increased survivability. No ganking means that is no longer a decision players have to make. Everyone will fit for max yield and space will be less vibrant and diverse. Actions and decsions have less consequences.
-It makes space more vibrant. You will see high sec gate camps. you will see flashies in space. It feels like a lived in universe.
-It provides content for lots of players. Both gankers and anti gankers (and even the industrialists making the catalysts and void ammo). By removing it you remove the gameplay styles of a variety of different people.
-It creates emerging opportunties in space for those willing to take risks. Those times you warp through a gate to find a gank in progress. You could shoot the flashies……you could try to steal the look.
Ganking has a large amount of value to a big portion of the player base.
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I’m just saying, what you’re asking for already exists. Why can’t people just go play that instead?
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-It results in the destruction which keeps material and module prices in check: It does not create so much destruction is keep the market anywhere. But this can be replaced with NPC no issues.
-It introduces a threat in space where otherwise be no threat - This can also be replaced with NPC
-That threat means players have to make decisions as to whether they address that threat or ignore it. i.e. meaningful choice. An example of this for a miner is……. Do i fill my low slots with mining upgrade modules for max yield? Or do i sacrifice yield and fit a damage control for increased survivability. No ganking means that is no longer a decision players have to make. Everyone will fit for max yield and space will be less vibrant and diverse. Actions and decsions have less consequences. This can also be replaced with NPC
-It makes space more vibrant. You will see high sec gate camps. you will see flashies in space. It feels like a lived in universe. Consented PvP should still be allowed in high.
-It provides content for lots of players. Both gankers and anti gankers (and even the industrialists making the catalysts and void ammo). By removing it you remove the gameplay styles of a variety of different people. Catalysts are dime a dozen, void ammo do you really think a 30 sec gank does anything for the market here? Or 5hours of PvE? I think gankers should have their content if you made the risk / reward balanced, it simply isn’t balanced today.
-It creates emerging opportunties in space for those willing to take risks. Those times you warp through a gate to find a gank in progress. You could shoot the flashies……you could try to steal the look. What are we talking about dozens of players now? I think there is a way to still have this content in high sec, without banishing everything.
Ganking has a large amount of value to a big portion of the player base. I don’t know the numbers, but I would say 1% at best, and that would be really stretching it in my opinion.
JJ
no it cant. I refer you my numerous posts about how AI behaviour is solvable and will result in afew weeks of destruction till everyone works it out and then enjoys absolute safety.
Humans are better than AI in EVERYTHING.
Taking away player interactions in favour of NPC does not provide a single benefit to the game, community or eco system.
Thanks for the response. I guess I should stop being surprised you (null), Drac (null), and another null sec person – in the same coalition as I – that all generally complain about the state of high sec ganking in these sorts of threads.
I technically “live” in null too, for the record.
My takeaway is that I should stop being surprised that there are nullbears that are upset that the list of neuts in high sec space aren’t tacitly blue.
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Sounds like a real revelation for you lol. I had no idea it would bring you to all these thoughts and conclusions. Very proud of you bud.
If you need anything else lol, let me know.
JJ
You have I agree, and I have stated on the same number of occasions the game would need changing, not insert cog here, and that it works fine. And I could be wrong, and the Trigalvaian are a great example, the NPC doesn’t have to be that great to do a lot of destruction.
For argument’s sake, let’s agree humans are great. But I am saying that NPC could play a big role of getting us to a middle ground here. The AI in-game could push this forward greatly.
And forcing interaction on players adds zero value as well. Nice we are back to the bases of the argument in this thread here. Ganking adds no benefit. How do we get to a middle ground?
JJ
And as ive said before. Change on top of change on top of change on top of change………To get something to work that is WORSE by every possible metric.
Its the most pointless change ive ever seen suggested. AI can not replace the dynamic and unpredictable nature of other playes.
No question they can play a role. They simple cant replace.
Again i disagree. As does CCP. CCP are on record as having stated that players that get ganked early in their eve careers are MORE likely to stick with the game long term than new players that do not get ganked.
There is a thread about a video about MMO’s that someone posted last week that would be relevant to this. How adversity in games build up connections and a sense of accomplishment.
EDIT: i went and got the link.
So while some players may levae because the are ganked (nobody is saying that some wouldn’t) those that stay and learn become far more connected to the game. That is value.
Not to mention the idea that
Is a bizarre concept to be complaining about. If i dont like being forced to interact with gates to get from A to B then could i argue that forced interation has no value.
Why should I be forced to interact with asteroids to get ORE?
Why should i be forced to interact with WH’s to get to J space?
Why should i be forced to use the Player market if i want to buy stuff. Shouldnt it just be there?
and finally…….
Why should i be foreced to interact with NPC’s when all i want to do is mine and rat in peace.
See………?
What your proposing is the first step on a cascade to try to fix a problem (that doesnt exist) that has no actual solution. Today its players. Tomorrow its NPC’s. The day after its game mecahnics. Whatever is getting in the way of max return and zero risk is what will be railed against constantly.
Etch the game is always changing, every year it changes, it is a good thing not a bad thing. Don’t spin something that has always been happing for the better as something bad.
Etch it is understanding the data, which is why CCP hasn’t really been pushing this statement after making. Think of it this way, yes people still in the game that were ganked will say yes I was ganked and I am still in the game. People that just left, won’t respond to a survey. This type of survey would should without a doubt ganking is great. But it is simply bad data, and it happens all the time, no one’s real fault, it at least starts a conversation.
CCP said that skill points would NEVER be sold in stores…My point is on record doesn’t make it fact, true, or anything beyond a statement at a moment in time. And CCP may have believed that at the moment until it was looked at differently, and now you see it isn’t pushed and the anti ganking has started.
These are all bad examples Etch. This isn’t absolute and not even within reason. Being in space going in one direction, at a constant speed is zero interaction. So to play a game interaction is required, it is what playing means. So maybe you were just going full one side of the spectrum, fine I do it once in a while. But it doesn’t validate anything and holds no real value to the argument.
Yes that is correct you are getting Etch, the game needs to continue to change always. It will never be a perfect status quo. Change isn’t always good and it isn’t always bad. But it is needed and will continue in Eve Online if we want to stay a relevant game in the gaming industry.
JJ
More like incredulity at the pervasiveness of a mentality that – to me – comes across as being really silly.
Living in null should set the expectation that people who are not your friends – and sometimes those who are – are out to kill you. Period. And people are living this day to day in the universe in null and are OK with this trade.
And then somehow that lesson disappears inside a “totally different” section of space because there’s some number higher than 0.4 and slightly more combat mechanics. Somehow that lesson goes poof and shouldn’t apply for whatever reason.
Very ridiculous mental gymnastics. 
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yes. Whats your point? Im not arguing against change. Im arguing against BAD change.
It isn’t that hard of a concept. In Null Space, you are either blue or you are not. There are no questions, there is no debate if you are not blue you dock up and get ready to get into something that shoots back in PvP fit. High and even low, it is just people, you can mark people yes, but it isn’t as easy as an alliance owning space.
So the trade is very easy, it is no secret Null is safer than high sec in a lot of ways. The risk in Null isn’t some pilot in local, it is an Alliance pushing you out of your space, which is a pretty big risk. But in peacetime, it is a pretty good life, look at the MER and where the wealth is generated, it isn’t rocket science.
JJ
No one wants bad change, I don’t want bad change. I love the game. There is needed change to balance correctly, but I am not an anti-gank person, so I would still want to see there be a way gankers get a little game play as well. And we have gone around a lot of ideas and none of them are good, other than the game is perfect today, and it isn’t true. Sorry.
JJ
I have never said the game is perfect today. All ive said is that everything you are suggesting makes it worse.
