New Wardec mechanics - can't wait!

[Whitehound]

@Dom_Arkaral

He doesn’t understand that HS is not lowsec or nullsec

He doesn’t understand the basic needs and wants of people in highsec

He doesn’t understand the strategic value of cloaky camping either seeing all his whines in that thread

I think I’m getting his logic. Or at least for the moment it’s what I believe is happening.

It’s when you like something so much, like having fun with something for the first time in your life, you then want it so much that you also want the whole world to do it. Your idea is it then to make it your gift to the world.

So Dracvlad has finally found something in EVE he enjoys, and because he likes it so much should everything in EVE work towards it. So wardecs now need to be tied in with structures to make it even more awesome. Best for him would be to make it into a form of “end-game” content so he can finally win EVE.

But lets’ see where he is going with his euphoria.

[Dracvlad]

@Whitehound

I think I’m getting his logic. Or at least for the moment it’s what I believe is happening.

It’s when you like something so much, like having fun with something for the first time in your life, you then want it so much that you also want the whole world to do it. Your idea is it then to make it your gift to the whole world.

So Dracvlad has finally found something in EVE he enjoys, and because he likes it so much should everything in EVE work towards it. So wardecs now need to be tied in with structures to make it even more awesome. Best for him would be to make it into a form of “end-game” content so he can finally win EVE.

But lets’ see where he is going with his euphoria.

Aaaaaah that is so sweet. But so wrong headed, your emotion is getting the better of you.

I used the term stonking battle for the one today, there is a clue in that, maybe you will get it, and the term great battle for the other one. But if you want to define that as merely structure bashes then feel free. But that type of battle is what I am trying to push with my proposal, thanks for giving me the opportunity to point that out.

@Whitehound

You’re in love with structure bashes. Can’t take that away from you, can I?

Battles that come from structures actually, in the end I couldn’t leave you in the dark as it would not be right, even if ignorance can be bliss for some…

Blowing up structures is not the boring ordeal that you and others paint it to be, at least without the void bombs that is, they were a real pain and what set most peoples teeth on edge, can’t remember the last time I have seen nullsec players complain about it since void bombs were removed.

[Whitehound]

@Dracvlad

Aaaaaah that is so sweet.

Ah, I’m right.

You’re in love with structure bashes. Can’t take that away from you, can I?

And don’t worry about my emotions. Worry about your own.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@Whitehound

To change them by adding further restrictions only moves them further away from the true warfare of low- and null-sec.

The true warfare you are talking about.

The one in null-sec is heavily based on structures and deployables, and borders and territories…

And the one in low-sec is also based on points of contests such as I-Hubs and, before Citadels invalidated them, station access.

As much as you want to paint wardecs in a nice color, they are no more than glorified licenses to kill that make high-sec meaningless.

We are not asking for limits, we are providing structure and order to what is a gangrened and unprofitable mess right now.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

licenses to kill

Which is exactly their purpose, hunters pay Concord to cull prey that they see as weak or proftiable, much as hunters IRL pay an authority for a licence to cull certain game, either for the health of the herd or for food/profit.

[Whitehound]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

The one in null-sec is heavily based on structures and deployables…

Of course it is, but wars are in no way limited engagements. They can be about anything and take as long as they take. To think they’re only about structures is the problem here.

And we do have structure fights in high-sec. Dracvlad doesn’t even seem to think that his idea could easily destroy his fun when more people start bashing structures. Or what happens when others destroy his structures and they keep doing it over and over again? Where will be his fun then?

And the idea EVE would need to be provided with your idea of order and structure just says that you don’t see the existing order and structure. What then happens is what always happens when people work against the grain and not with it. Players will work around it and pervert it where you end up regretting it.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

TL;DR Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

Happens a lot around here, Murphy and Sod being close friends with Bob and all that.

[MinerArt]

@Whitehound

Or what happens when others destroy his structures and they keep doing it over and over again?

Isn’t that exactly what draws people to null space fights?

A and B go to war to destroy eachother’s ****.
A blows up B’s structure. B has to stage out of another structure. B retaliates and blows up A’s structure. Both patrol and try to blow up each other’s ships. Eventually one or the other will run out of stuff to throw into fights. Oh no their fun is gone.

In effect you just declared anything in null about taking over space and defending it dumb.

[Whitehound]

@MinerArt

Isn’t that exactly what draws people to null space fights?

No. There are as many reasons as there are people in EVE and everyone plays EVE for their very own reasons.

The danger is to think everyone is doing more or less the same, and then to change the game so that everyone then is doing the same and can only do the same.

[gnshadowninja]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

IMHO the problem with wardecs is that the mechanics currently favour mass wardecs by larger alliances and the camping of hubs and choke points, most of the suggestions here further reinforce the larger groups; a relationship with structures being the main one.

IIRC the last major change to wardecs was made to make them accessible to more players because CCP didn’t think that they were being used enough, unfortunately the opposite seems to have happened and we have the current meta.

Sure there are solo guys and small groups out there, but as I remember it*, when I first started playing in 09 there were more of them.

*dons rose tinted glasses

I have no suggestions for fixing them, because I’m in no way qualified to be in a position to do so

Removal of any useful tools for hunting & people consistently dropping corps caused the current meta nothing else.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Pretty much, I was just more long winded about it and didn’t go into specifics, I know enough to not be overly effected if I got hit with one, but not enough to go beyond my own opinion or make suggestions.

[MinerArt]

@Whitehound

The danger is to think everyone is doing more or less the same, and then to change the game so that everyone then is doing the same and can only do the same.

Ah. So that’s the flaw you think exists. Then to be blunt. No. Nobody is in the same danger. Believing that is asinine. To assume such means you’ve forgotten a lot of the game.

There are people who base out of high sec and do null roams. Their risk is their ship.
There are people who make a structure to lower costs of activity. Their risk is their structure.
There are people out there controlling territory and planets. Their risk is considerably greater than the above two even with the same limits items.

There are people who haven’t undocked in Jita 4-4 for the better part of a decade. Their risk is their wallet.

Assuming anyone has the same risk is just a greater flaw of vision.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@Whitehound

They can be about anything and take as long as they take. To think they’re only about structures is the problem here.

But most of the time they are about specific things that can be tweaked in order to provide incentives for people to run into each others.

See, it is not that I think that they are only about structures. I specifically said that Null-sec borders were enforced by force and force and force only.

But you know what High-sec has that Null-sec doesn’t?

CONCORD.

So since we can’t blow each other up, the only solution is those borders to manifest in other ways than simple coercion, else we descend into your current model of wardeccing the entire universe.

I see no better mark of both territories and borders than structures in High-sec, if you see anything else please do tell.

@Whitehound

And the idea EVE would need to be provided with your idea of order and structure just says that you don’t see the existing order and structure.

You talk like the current state of High-sec is such a beautiful and meaningful thing.

Dude, you are by far the less talked-about space in this game.

Whenever I heard and hear of High-sec, it’s with the words “Boring”, “Leave it as soon as possible”. Whenever I heard or hear of wardeccing groups, it’s with the word “cancerous” not that far behind.

It’s a mess, it’s not a sandbox, it’s a pile of dirt with corroded tools and toys rotting around.

The less we can do is introduce some structure into that degenerative mess.

@Whitehound

And the idea EVE would need to be provided with your idea of order and structure just says that you don’t see the existing order and structure. What then happens is what always happens when people work against the grain and not with it. Players will work around it and pervert it where you end up regretting it.

I am no stranger to Murphy’s Law, and I damn well know the danger of good intentions.

However, something being unperfect does not mean it is bad.

Are you waiting and wanting for a perfect solution? Cos if that’s the case, you and the game will be long gone before it happens. Most of the systems we have right now in the game are already twisted to some degree.

@Whitehound

Dracvlad doesn’t even seem to think that his idea could easily destroy his fun when more people start bashing structures. Or what happens when others destroy his structures and they keep doing it over and over again? Where will be his fun then?

One word:

Content.

[Dantelion_Shinoni]

@gnshadowninja

Removal of any useful tools for hunting & people consistently dropping corps caused the current meta nothing else.

You’d get those tools in a heartbeat if they were tied to something tangible that can be interacted with.

I’d bet a lot that it’s one of the primary reasons CCP removed the thing in the first place, lack of interactivity with the targeted player. I’d bet this is what they are looking for to re-introduce them back.

[MinerArt]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

I’d bet a lot that it’s one of the primary reasons CCP removed the thing in the first place, lack of interactivity with the targeted player. I’d bet this is what they are looking for to re-introduce them back.

Damed straight. Shame people are against making a way to return ability to hunt.

[Whitehound]

@MinerArt

Ah. So that’s the flaw you think exists. Then to be blunt. No. Nobody is in the same danger. Believing that is asinine. To assume such means you’ve forgotten a lot of the game.

No, it’s not what I’m saying. I’m saying that those who suggest to change EVE so that it can only be played in one way are not seeing EVE for what it is. To put EVE onto rails is like making it into the new Mario Cart. We don’t need to lay out a trail of gold coins into null sec just so people drive their carts to Mario’s castle, and just because that’s what a majority currently thinks of as fun. EVE is a sandbox, which allows for diversity and should never be turned into a concrete box.

Or is this what you want?

[Max_Deveron]

the more and more i hear on this subject…

The more i think war decs need to be tied to structures,

Required to have at least 1 astrahus or those new FOB’s proposed for players in a region to be able to aggress war targets in THAT region.

And if you are a merc corp, then you can only accept contracts for that region your structure is located in(using a contract system not a player to player agreement, but a formal contract)

Such i think, give those who really want to control resources and areas the ability to wardec others(only the aggressor needs a structure, defenders do not require one to get dec’d).

And for Mercs, well they get limited to a region of Operations (and they can have as many structures as they want)

Essentially what I am saying is this.
1.) Must have a structure in space to initiate a wardec.(POS, Strucuture, POCO, etc)
2.) War target aggression only is legal in said region that you own a structure.
3.) Not having a structure, does not make you safe from being Wardec’d

I feel what this does is:
1.) can give defenders something static to target(whether they do or not is not our problem) to ‘maybe’ end a wardec.
2.) Do not need to change war dec fees, having structures puts an added inherent cost to wardecing.
3.) puts somewhat a limit of ‘choice’ to war dec spamming(ie you can camp Jita, or you can camp Amarr for example but you might not be able to do both let alone defend your structures in both regions every day at the same time 24/7)

[Whitehound]

@Dantelion_Shinoni

You talk like the current state of High-sec is such a beautiful and meaningful thing.

You seem surprised. I do indeed like it. So when you don’t like it, why don’t you move elsewhere? Or is all of EVE bad?

[MinerArt]

@Whitehound

EVE is a sandbox, which allows for diversity and should never be turned into a concrete box.

Or is this what you want?

List the differences then. Do you have anything change because of it? How? Or the argument of a change making a sandbox into a concrete box is false.

[Whitehound]

@MinerArt

List the differences then. Do you have anything change because of it? How? Or the argument of a change making a sandbox into a concrete box is false.

What do you want to know?