Nullification and WCS Updates – testing has begun!

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Rogan_Johnston

I see; so you have everything figured out then. I guess that is why you are CSM. You figured out the entire game, and all of its players. You even figured out that I was using Goons as an example and not the representation of all of null sec. Glad to see we have such capable hands at the helm.

Yeah I mean obviously I can just wait 2.5 minutes between jumps, cloaked in space and be fine. That is until they make cloaks require fuel and I can never carry enough fuel to move more than 6 systems. Can’t wait to see the cloaking changes they combo with this to be completely honest.

/sigh

I don’t have everything figured out, but what I do have figured out is when somebody is providing good feedback and when they’re just pissed and venting. I’ve passed on as much good feedback as I’ve been getting, either from here or the dozens of private conversations I’ve had with players. I play the game everyday, which is obvious both because I’m usually streaming it and from my killboard, yet I still get accused of not playing on a daily basis, including from guys like you who haven’t gotten a PvP kill in four years, apparently. Just once, it would be nice to have a conversation about this stuff that doesn’t devolve into pedantry or name calling.

You don’t like the change - that’s fine. I don’t like much of it either. I hope CCP will make changes based on the feedback they’ve received.

@Jeremiah_Saken

@Brisc_Rubal People won’t travel in shuttles becuase gates will be smartbomb camped and they will be if this “feature” hit TQ. I still don’t see the benefit of pushing nullification on shuttles, sorry, it is insignificant to me.

Gates are already smartbombed camped where it makes sense to do that, as Arrendis noted before. The benefit of pushing nullification on shuttles is that it provides a cheap, quick way to move around that has most of the benefits of traveling in a taxi-ceptor and few of the drawbacks.

But hey - it may not be of any value to you. That’s fine. It will be of value to others.

[Ivanka_Omanid]

If not the same. I maybe did a terrible job explaining my concern I create a new post

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/please-help-me-to-understand-this-changes-from-a-casual-new-player-perspective/

From the perspective of a new player

[May_Q_Cry]

In a CCP livestream on Twitch about the upcoming industry changes and that was a direct quote:

“If you don’t like it then quit playing”

[Snipe_Armstrong]

Having been around long enough to witness several major nerfs in my time, the removal of passive nullification for t3 subsystems , yachts and certain interceptors is quite disabling. After all, didn’t we JUST experience a nerf to nullification already with ECM bursts? if “balance” is indeed the goal then perhaps a similar tradeoff such as cynos requiring active or outright canceling nullification on the equipped vessel?

Yachts were the ideal “minding my own business” ship and strat cruisers are essentially the " it can do that with enough upgrading/customization"/pve dream. It’s already enough of a tradeoff to ship performance in losing fitting slots by using a nullification subsystem, having to lose further performance by then having to give up ANOTHER slot for an active nullifier that’s limited in its effect and further nerfs your ship’s other stats isnt a tradeoff anymore, its a NERF . as someone stated earlier ,competent hunters/camps renders these changes as being, rather pointless.
While the introduction for non-combat nullification is certainly long overdue and certainly ADDS to the game, removing passive nullification to others definitely would just hurt quality of life for them (btw still no freighter love?) Perhaps simply ADDING these modules with restrictions to certain vessels would be a more fruitful means of ADDING to the gameplay.

Just putting ideas/observations out there, probably not my final draft, so thoughts/reactions so far?

[Rogan_Johnston]

@Brisc_Rubal

/sigh

I don’t have everything figured out, but what I do have figured out is when somebody is providing good feedback and when they’re just pissed and venting. I’ve passed on as much good feedback as I’ve been getting, either from here or the dozens of private conversations I’ve had with players. I play the game everyday, which is obvious both because I’m usually streaming it and from my killboard, yet I still get accused of not playing on a daily basis, including from guys like you who haven’t gotten a PvP kill in four years, apparently. Just once, it would be nice to have a conversation about this stuff that doesn’t devolve into pedantry or name calling.

You don’t like the change - that’s fine. I don’t like much of it either. I hope CCP will make changes based on the feedback they’ve received.

Have you ever considered, perhaps, that I quit playing the game for 4 years?

And then I come back to the game and it’s like instantly there are changes being made that drastically negatively impact the game overall in favor of large corps (I guess if that is what CCP wants then it’s fine. It’s their game). I like to feel like I matter, but I am aware that I don’t. I guess it’s all about perspective though. It’s only my content that is constantly getting shafted. Other people will love these changes.

Honestly yeah, maybe I was a bit harsh on you. At the end of the day, it’s not this change I care about as much as how future changes they are planning are going to combo with it. Regardless, I still think this change is pretty terrible in general. And I largely worry that a change this bad is going to snowball into more and more bad changes.

[Azalais_Selenica]

@Rogan_Johnston

And then I come back to the game and it’s like instantly there are changes being made that drastically negatively impact the game overall in favor of large corps

Its not you, its been like that for the past 2 years

[May_Q_Cry]

@Rogan_Johnston

And I largely worry that a change this bad is going to snowball into more and more bad changes.

You should be glad you missed 2020 then. The entire year was nothing but a series of bad changes, and there are no signs it will let up this year either.

CCP Rattati is on a crusade to make every aspect of gameplay worse, less profitable, and more difficult.

[Arrendis]

@Derath_Ellecon

There was no context in the post I was replying to. If the context was in the quote you used, I’d recommend using enough of the quote to let the context flow, as a thread of over 600 posts makes it near impossible to follow every context otherwise.

Ok, so, you see the little down-carrot in this quote, next to the up-arrow? Click it. It’ll give you the entire post that quote’s taken from. Makes it really easy to check context¹.

@Neugeniko

Does the nullification have to be on when I hit warp or I enter warp?

When you click ‘warp’. NOT when your ship accelerates to 75% speed/align and you enter warp. When you push the button, that’s when your landing point is determined.

@Ivanka_Omanid

I maybe did a terrible job explaining my concern I create a new post

How would this change my gameplay

A. Enter Sivala
B. Active WCS
C. Do MWC+Cloak Trick, Warp to Sun
D. Wait for cooldown in WCS
E. Warp to Uadama
F. Active WCS
G. Do MWC+Cloak Trick, Warp to Sun

(Combined those for ease of reference)

In fact, you don’t have to activate the WCS before doing the MWD+Cloak trick. Instead…

A. Enter Sivala
B. Do MWC+Cloak Trick, Warp to Uedama
C. Enter Uadama
D. Try to MWC+Clok Trick to warp to Juunigaishi gate
E. CODE. decloak me with a velator
F. CODE. Scrambled me.
G Activate WCS. Warp to Juunigaishi gate. Give CODE. the finger.

If you don’t fit a nullification module (and you don’t need one in lowsec) then you can put in 2 nanos, or a nano and a hyperspatial accelerator, letting you align faster and warp faster. Just going to 3 nanos shaves 1.5s off your align time, so you’ll get out of there even faster, and only need to activate the 1 WCS if you get tackled.

@Snipe_Armstrong

if “balance” is indeed the goal then perhaps a similar tradeoff such as cynos requiring active or outright canceling nullification on the equipped vessel?

Cynos do require activation… and they use up fuel, too. But if you’re worried about covert cynos on nullified covops frigates… well, they do have enough room for a depot and cyno in the cargo, with plenty of space left for the ozone. They don’t need to be nullified once they’re in-system, they can just refit and light the covert to bring the force recon cynos in.

---

^{1. And that’s not snark, either, Discourse has a bunch of little hidden things like that one, or the < sup > / < /sup > tags that I use for these footnotes, that nobody who actually runs a Discourse implementation ever takes the time to learn, much less explain to their users. As another example?}

You

can

do

Wiki-style

headers

six layers deep

^{by using different numbers of #s (ie: ## can, above)}

[MoneyPenny_Miss]

Mainly for T3s

[Glyken_Touchon]

@CCP_Dopamine

Compact Interdiction Nullifier

• Slot: Low
• Powergrid: 1 MW
• CPU: 32 tf
• Active Time: 12s
• Cooldown: 150s
• Activation cost: 150
• Target Range Penalty: 50%
• Scan Resolution Penalty: 50%
• Max Group Fitted: 1
• Required Skill: Warp Drive Operation 4

Restrained Interdiction Nullifier

• Slot: Low
• Powergrid: 1 MW
• CPU: 38 tf
• Active Time: 12s
• Cooldown: 150s
• Activation cost: 150
• Target Range Penalty: 50%
• Scan Resolution Penalty: 50%
• Max Group Fitted: 1
• Required Skill: Warp Drive Operation 4

@CCP_Dopamine I think you’ve missed something (copypaste error?)- the restrained version has no benefit whatsoever (unless I’m blind) over the compact version. Restrained usually have lower penalties .

[Captain_Semper]

So much mess. People throw traveling in null/low/high, scouting, smartbombing, tackling, exploring into ONE case.
Like what?
Do your ceptor right now are safe against smartbomb camp in lowsec? Do you even need nullifier while traveling low/high? Or you want ship that can travel safty in any region w/o drawbacks with insane warp speed? “Casual” you say? So when you need different ship for traveling depending on region you go through it is CASUAL. But when you can use only ceptor for 99% situtation its ok and HARDCORE? Give me a break.

Also. when last time you face smartbomb camp in nullsec? Stop use incredible rare situation as an argument.

T3C big loose because now they reserv 1 low slot for nullifier? Did you check what nullifier subsystem actually does? If you compare it to other prop subsystem you will find out that null subsystem always give less slots than other subs. So actually now you can have nullifier and more slots (and you will have better align btw).

Yes, new nullifier module makes it more dangerous to travel through nullsec/wh/pochven. But this is the point!

And i see why people dont like it. Now you cant be 99% sure that you will reach system while pressing “jump” every 13 seconds on your ceptor for 5 minutes. Now you actually will check local, will check map.

If you need taxi - shuttle. If you need bring stuff into null (even if its HG implants) NOW you will use your brain to do that. Not just “oh…i think i use ares and no problem”. Game actually became harder.

Ages ago there were no nullified ceptors. And people still managed to catch ratters in bubbled pockets. Now how? It called 5MN MWD. You align your ceptor, press MWD and after 2-4 second you can warp.

Or there is some camp in next system and your nullifier on cd. How can you live? Its 5MN boy that will help you align gate before most ships in the game can lock you.

People complain that now they need to THINK how to travel nulls or survive gate camps instead of pushing JUMP NEXT GATE. And with that they still cry about “how casual this change is”

[Derath_Ellecon]

@Arrendis

Ok, so, you see the little down-carrot in this quote, next to the up-arrow? Click it. It’ll give you the entire post that quote’s taken from. Makes it really easy to check context1.

Hey look at that. I learned something new today. Never noticed that atl all. THANKS.

@MoneyPenny_Miss

Mainly for T3s

Yea I’m not happy about the changes for T3C either. But that has many aspects to it. Maybe we can finally drop the lose a skill on death thing?

[Azalais_Selenica]

@Captain_Semper

So actually now you can have nullifier and more slots (and you will have better align btw).

No, it’s actually now nulli subsystem with less slots, -1 low slot for nullifier module, and drawbacks from the nullifier module - all in the same package complete with severely reduced overall efficiency.

[The_Dungeon_Master]

CCPlease don’t ■■■■ up the t3c bonuses. It already has trade-offs for nullification, it doesn’t need any more.

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Brisc_Rubal

I wish I could claim credit for that, but I didn’t. I do think it’s not a bad idea - nullification on non-combat ships isn’t an issue for me. I’m generally okay with that.

Awesome Gives me a warm feeling when we agree on something

[Tipa_Riot]

@chossuh

The module duration needs to last through warp.

This also makes the bonuses that nullified T3Cs / ceptors get to the duration absolutely useless.

No, deactivation on warp is a buff, because it starts cooldown as early as possible. Yes, the duration bonus is pointless, it should be fixed at 12 or 15s, not more. The duration must be longer than 10s to make use of the module with MWD/cloak trick.

[Gerard_Amatin]

To continue with points of feedback about the current implementation of this update:
(Mind, I do like the general idea of active nullification and WCS modules!)

4. Bubbles on both sides of a gate make it impossible to ignore the bubbles
The nullification module has a cooldown, so if a ship needs to activate the module to jump through a gate and finds another bubble on the other side, the ship is dead.

Why doesn’t the duration of the nullification module (30 seconds for bonused ships) carry over to the next system? In an interceptor I should be able to warp through a bubble, take a gate and warp out of the next bubble easily within those 30 seconds.

Right now the issue is that the nullification bonus falls off when you jump a gate. That shouldn’t happen!

My suggestion:

• Let the nullification bonus carry over for the full duration, even when jumping systems

[Rogan_Johnston]

For one actual suggestion that may help:

Why not make the module fit into a new slot instead of being any of high mid or low slots?

The nullification module can just be a nullification slot that sits next to the lows and can only accept a Nullification module or something? This will help fix the issue of armor ceptors having to devote an armor slot to the module. Also make the fitting requirements more negligible?

[Ramona_McCandless]

@Rogan_Johnston

We have to bring goods, ships, resources out with us.

And now you can in Nullified DSTs.

Whats the problem?

[Lucas_Quaan]

@CynoNet_Two

I really don’t get why Active Time is the only stat that gets a ‘bonus’ between different versions of the module. In most situations you would activate warp pretty quickly after the module. If anything, an increase to this stat is actually a penalty because it delays the start of the cooldown. The same applies for the 100% role bonus increase.

If anything, Cooldown should be the only stat that gets improved.

This needs to be quoted more because whoever is designing these should think long and hard about how nullification actually works.