October 2018 Release - General Feedback

[Winston_Onzo]

I think there was an actual post that @Brisc_Rubal asked.

IMO though, why is it wrong @Jenn_aSide for a CSM or possibly even an ISD to ask for stuff, but its ok for us?

[Brisc_Rubal]

@AshenShugar01

But CCP haven’t fixed war decs, they ‘fixed’ ECM out of usability instead.

Of all the things discussed at the CSM why were the only things the CSM advocated for adopted by CCP things that benefit 0.0 shills?

You guys talk about high sec war decs, player retention, faction war, WHs, low sec, capital proliferation, rorquals and yet all that talk leads to… drumroll please. Benefits for 0.0 crabbing!!!

You see the point being made by me and lots of other players?

I think the point being made is both premature and unfair. There’s a lot of time left in the year for them to get to stuff like wardecs, among other things. That they did this first because these changes were simpler to do - we all know the war dec changes are going to take a while - doesn’t mean they’re doing nothing else.

I don’t see the Damavik changes being a change for 0.0 crabbing. The HIC module for wormholers isn’t, either. That ECM and interceptors benefit null is obvious, but the ECM changes benefit everybody else, too. ECM is common in every area of space.

Nobody is sitting around saying “how can we make 0.0 crabbing safer” - it’s already too safe as it is. These changes weren’t designed around that. They were designed to deal with other frustrations that players had.

I’m sure that when war decs get fixed you guys will claim that this was all because nullsec alliances didn’t want to keep dealing with losing JFers, right?

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Jenn_aSide

You are a CSM member, you aren’t supposed to be responding to anyone with ridicule or contempt. This is why I said your conduct is unprofessional.

I have no beef about the ECM changes or anything in the CSM minutes . I am saying that IMO You are proving that you are not cut out for the position. You should have asked yourself if you have the proper temperament for it before putting yourself forward as a candidate.

I’m sorry you feel that my responses were unprofessional. I’m sure you feel the same way about CCP Falcon’s or the other CSM members who have been far more crass than I have been.

I signed up to represent the players on the CSM, not be a punching bag. You’ll have to forgive me if I deign to defend myself when I’m getting crapped on.

[ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode]

Removed some off topic posts. Please keep it on topic and civil. Thank you.

[Scooter6976]

isd is running cover for brisc. again. this is my shocked face

[shroom_spore]

as it is i would still prefer that ECM was totally removed as compared to neutered for solo as it is, at least that way i coulda got my skill points back and not have to spend another month+ to get my skills in a different area high enough that i dont simply lose to somone because they have better skills in weaponry than i do.

i tested out a GNI with a burst jammer, had no idea they only broke locks solo ecm is dead R.I.P “F” to pay respects… (needless to say it was useless)

[Jenn_aSide]

You[re getting crapped on because you are bad at communicating and too thin skinned to do the job you signed up for. You are an adult, and when challenged on your less than mature behavior your response is “but CCP Falcon”. We are talking about you, not Falcon or the rest of the CSM.

A good rep/public servant sets an example with his behavior rather than make excuses.

[Jenn_aSide]

@Circumstantial_Evidence

Are you referring to this post? Brisc didn’t ask for that player’s stuff in his reply, the “stuff” was offered. (Albeit in the context of a post saying “I quit in disgust at changes affecting WH”.)

No I’m not referring to that one unless that was the one that was editted. The one I’m referring to is gone.

[shroom_spore]

CCP can i please have some kind of module for solo ECM?

[Iowa_Banshee]

I tried to point out it’s duality but was censured

Could you please ask Brisc to edit this out - “Now I’m being Brett Kavanaughed”
Its is politically charged comment that has no place in this forum.

EDIT : you can remove this post now

[ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode]

All moderation actions taken are transparent. ISD have no bias when it comes to moderation; if you believe we do, please file a ticket. Thank you.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Jenn_aSide

You[re getting crapped on because you are bad at communicating and too thin skinned to do the job you signed up for. You are an adult, and when challenged on your less than mature behavior your response is “but CCP Falcon”. We are talking about you, not Falcon or the rest of the CSM.

A good rep/public servant sets an example with his behavior rather than make excuses.

I’m setting the example I want to set - I’m here, talking to the community. Nobody else is.

I’m sorry you were offended.

[Circumstantial_Evidence]

On other more moderated forums, I often see guidelines like “discuss the subject, not the writer.”

[Tink_Pickles]

@Brisc_Rubal

You show me a counter to ECM that works every time.

This is an artificial standard you are only applying to ECM.

Show me a counter that works 100% of the time to prevent criticals from turrets, which are RNG based.

Show me a counter that is 100% effective against sensor damping, or tracking disruption, or energy neutralisers, or target painters, or drones, or warp disruptors, or warp scramblers, or hictor infinipoints, or webs, or grapplers, or missiles, or being hit with hostile micro jump stuff from command destroyers, or titan gtfo modules.

You are holding ECM to a different standard than every other part of the game.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Tink_Pickles

Show me a counter that works 100% of the time to prevent criticals from turrets, which are RNG based.

Show me a counter that is 100% effective against sensor damping, or tracking disruption, or energy neutralisers, or target painters, or drones, or warp disruptors, or warp scramblers, or hictor infinipoints, or webs, or grapplers, or missiles, or being hit with hostile micro jump stuff from command destroyers, or titan gtfo modules.

You are holding ECM to a different standard than every other part of the game.

I’m not.

If I’m being neuted and I use my cap booster, it works every time.

If I’m being web/scrammed and I use my ECM burst, it works every time.

If I’m being pointed and I use my MJD, it works every time.

If I’m getting shot, and I hit my ASB or my armor repairers, it works every time.

If I hit my ECCM - there’s still a chance the jam lands. That’s why folks wanted it changed.

[shroom_spore]

how did you get your burst jam to work every time? my best idea i could come up with was ECM burst a battleships with 2 resolution damps to give you 30 seconds. my burst was not strong enough to break a battleship lock reliably at all.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@shroom_spore

my burst was not strong enough to break a battleship lock reliably at all.

I’m generally using them to break tackle, not break BS locks.

[shroom_spore]

im trying to find anything that will let me use it solo in any way…

[Khan_Wrenth]

Okay, but this change did nothing about that. This much you’ve made crystal clear: your frustration with the mechanic is the RNG nature of it. You’ve said exactly as such, and you imply that it is the core part of many other people’s frustrations.

As you put it, that would be a mechanics overhaul, which was beyond the scope of CCP’s abilities at this time. “…still a chance…”. That part hasn’t changed.

Further, if we want to be brutally honest about the examples you’ve responded to, only a select few actually “work every time”. The others work partially, gradually, and/or over time, which is the other apparent bugbear with ECM - the binary nature of it.

The cap booster gives you a small rush of cap, but not your full capacitor amount, and it’s entirely possible that 90% will still be neuted out before you can use it.

If you’re pointed and use MJD…well that’s not the counter-module anyway. You’re thinking of WCS, and you have to stack enough to make it work against the number of points against you. A scram will shut off your MJD, meanwhile enough WCS still allows you to make a getaway.

If you use reps or shield boosters, you’re only getting a portion of your health back. And depending on setup, it’s still cap-dependent, so it may not work at all if you’ve run your ship hard and fast and drained your own cap.

So we’re still left with a mechanic where the two primary components that caused frustration - the RNG and the binary nature of it, are still intact.

[Tink_Pickles]

@Brisc_Rubal

If I’m being neuted and I use my cap booster, it works every time.

Until you run out of cap charges, but even so, you are still being drained of capctor. You aren’t stopping yourself from being drained, just restoring your capacitor for a limited amount of time after the fact.

If I’m being web/scrammed and I use my ECM burst, it works every time.

ECM bursts are subject to the exact same RNG you complain about ECM being. You know, the bit that you say is explicitly the reason why no other solution(Such as shortening the cycle time) is valid?

They are also not 100% effective, therefore this isin fact, not a counter, via your own logic.

If I’m being pointed and I use my MJD, it works every time.

Unless you are also scrammed, in which case it does not work.

If I’m getting shot, and I hit my ASB or my armor repairers, it works every time.

You miss the point. Deliberately. There is, in fact, no way to 100% guarantee that the shots never hit you in the first place. Once again, you are mitigating, after the fact, the consequences of the fact that these things cannot be countered.

Also, no amount of repping is 100% certain to ensure your ship is never destroyed by incoming fire. Therefore, by your own logic, as it is not 100% effective, it is not a counter.

If I hit my ECCM - there’s still a chance the jam lands. That’s why folks wanted it changed.

You want a single module to counter a dedicated hull bonus plus four or five modules working in concert 100% of the time. That is far beyond reasonable.

Also, you ignored the following:

• Hictor Infinitpoints
• Command Destroyer Micro Jump Shenanigans
• Titan GTFO module effects
• Sensor Dampeners
• Tracking Disruptors
• Missile Guidance Disruptors
• Target painters