Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

Well, most of those don’t apply to either the Caldari State or the Empire, so I don’t see why that term is applied to them.

In fact, I suspect this term “fascist” is just more Gallentean exceptionalism nonsense, based on how the Garoun “World Democracy League” subjugated the other nation-states of Gallente Prime.

I wrote a post once about why Federal citizens often behave patronisingly towards people from other cultures.

Seems to me that this term “fascist” is another such patronising thing. Calling other cultures by terms that only ever really applied to the subjugated nation-states of historical Gallente Prime.

Tedious, really.

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So … I usually leave the contradictions to you, but I don’t think you understand the determinist model very well, Arrendis. It’s not only the outcome that is determined; it’s all of it, cause leading on to an effect that is itself a cause, and so on.

Sure people always, at the same point in time, make the decisions they make, but they also make them for the reasons they make them. The whole process works, simply, how it works. It may work differently somewhere else depending on the many-worlds option for explaining quantum weirdness, but a person who succeeds because they try hard was only going to succeed because they tried hard-- but they were also always going to try, and try hard, and always for the same reasons.

It’s not that outcomes occur magically, acausally. It’s that the flow of cause and effect is all-encompassing, including what subjectively looks to us like “making decisions.”

Subjectively it feels no different from “free will,” but the underlying reality is just things rolling along to cause other things.

That was at least halfway a joke, imagining all that tension and potential energy sprawling happily out in languid entropy, but sure.

Is okay.

You said a lot of other interesting stuff I’ll have to mull over for a bit, but let me go back to something you said before.

I suppose this might explain why you seem to find me so frustrating. I tend to engage and even enjoy philosophical challenges, within reason (I like exploring reality; I do not like being a practice dummy or chew toy). Do you feel like I know, or should know, better by now?

Doesn’t that rely on the assumption that the conclusions I would reach after extensive travel and exploration are the same as your own, though?

Yes, obviously. That’s exactly why no, personal responsibility cannot itself influence outcomes. Because nothing can. And on top of that… there is no personal responsibility, because determinism.

And those reasons were always going to be what they are in that moment. The moment the universe existed, those choices were already set in stone, because everything will play out how it plays out at every moment in between.

I feel like you’re still looking into the challenge to your worldview, and more, refusing to make any decision until you’ve found every possible challenge to it.

No, because there’s no assumption that any of the examples involved have anything in common with me. I might be person number 3, neh? :wink:

Technically, yes, but the concept of personal responsibility could be included, or not, in causal chains (fractal webs, really), likely leading to different outcomes.

It’s not so much that we can’t change the outcomes; it’s more that we’re tangled up in the outcomes in such a way that whether we will include certain concepts is not actually a choice we make. It’s likely to feel like one, though!

Maybe some other Aria in some distant quantum universe makes a different call, because some particle scatter tips things a little somehow. Wouldn’t it be amazing to see some of the worlds where things worked out a little differently, especially long ago?

In such-and-such a world the Prophet Gheinok’s next-door neighbor opted to grow a crop of cucumbers instead of potatoes. What changes? Oo, that would be so neat to see!

Anyway, I’m not 100% on everything really being worked out from the universe’s start (because quantum weirdness) but yes, it does seem pretty clear to me that what I think and the decisions I make are less “mine” than most people might like to believe: all a bunch of stones and such tumbling down a hill.

And one of the ways we bump and jar against each other is the ideas we trade. That’s a form of influence, and it is included in the outcomes.

That … is … a very interesting notion. I’ll have to think about that.

Hmmmmm. True, but you do tend to be pretty confident in your perspectives you know? “No, Aria,” could have been your personal tagline for, like, months, a few years back.

Maybe not forever, though. We’re all objects, processes, in motion after all.

Well, that’s kinda the thing though, isn’t it? Quantum indeterminism is, you know… indeterminism. Determinism says that just because we don’t know the quantum states perfectly doesn’t mean the values of thos scalar fields weren’t set just as deterministically as everything at the macro scale.

No, Aria. :stuck_out_tongue:

But if you’d like, I can give you more insight into Persons 1-3, just not on the IGS.

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I knew the going-ons in Placid would have serious effects on the cluster as a whole, but these two bits are most unfortunate.

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It’s sold out but I’m sure someone in your position can get hold of tickets for her gig in Poitot (highly secure, naturally).

Oh, I’m not worried about being able to get tickets to an event like that. It’s somewhat irresponsible for me to go to something like a concert across the cluster out in Syndicate. I’m too obvious a target.

I just think her music is somewhat catchy, lyrics occasionally aside.

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I haven’t been to a live venue in a very long time. What type of performance is it?

Her music draws on the Samang tradition of the high Akat, which is famous for the Gamphu.


She is a versatile performer so you never know quite what to expect but her stage shows tend to avoid extravagance and play on her audience’s nostalgia for folk tradition.

"“Were the Federal Senators for the Intaki system consulted before the invasion? Yes. Did we consent to the action? Yes, with some misgivings, simply to see our people freed from constant warfare under the absurd militia system. But did we agree to a permanent Federal military presence? No, we did not.”

Now, pray tell, how does this moron expect these systems to stay out of the conflict without considerable military protection? To my knowledge the CEMWPA hasn’t been renegotiated - and considering the recent bickering we’ve read about, possibly never will be - so these systems are still legally “free game” if the Federation forces securing them leave.

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It is the 11th Anniversary of my Daughter’s Conception.

Senator Bellaron is the last person I’d expect to see standing up for States’ rights. Call me a cynic but his critique is probably less to do with the impracticalities that you point out than it is with seizing an opportunity to impress a significant number of local voters. Remember, every year, one fifth of the Senate is up for election.

Fastest and second fastest routes from Yulai to Poitot go through Placid. The fastest option goes through Villore itself (the capital). The second fastest goes through Viriette (now heavily militarized). Neither is a great option for diplomats worried about the Federation’s commitment to not breaching its international agreements.

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I’m just operating on the wording that they’re being transported “from” Placid and not “through” Placid. Your interpretation is equally valid.

An alternative is that this was the team in Placid negotiating the terms of the security franchise with the Intaki Assembly but they haven’t been heard of for some time now.

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Plenty of other roles to fill in that pursuit.

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Gotta ask. Do they do soapy ship cleans?

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I’m sure that can be arranged.

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Years spent in Summit have convinced me that Gallenteans aren’t well versed in questions of basic biology and anatomy.

I am surprised how they don’t confuse legs with arms.