The nine-generations thing has been corrected already, so I’ll correct the other one: while there are total abolitionists in the Republic too (just like there are everywhere, including even the Empire), a lot of us would be content with an Amarr Empire that did not enslave our people, and did not believe they have a divine duty to do more of it in the future.
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I’m pointing out that it doesn’t take an Imperial Edict. The only thing unique about that event was the broad scope of it. I’ve also heard from multiple Matari sources that it was viewed as an act of economic or cultural warfare. So, one wonders, If the Empire were to release all the slaves as Mr. Aloga has suggested, How to do it without creating a humanitarian disaster at home and abroad?
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Why are you so worried about a humanitarian disaster? To prove that you have to keep the slaves for “their own good”?
Emancipate everyone. Offer people the chance to keep living wherever they have been living, to receive the upkeep or equivalent in salary they have been getting, in exchange for the work they’ve been doing. Give them access to information and the right to practice their own religions and customs, and make it illegal to beat up, kill or forcibly stop someone who wants to quit or move elsewhere.
Some will prefer to stay. Some will prefer to leave and risk the “humanitarian disaster”. Fate will take care of the rest.
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I do not work in the MIO of Amarr Empire, Mr. Aloga, please send your inquiries to the corresponding authorities.
I put a claim based on my understanding of principles of working of that system and on a claim made by Imperial authority when they asked me to terminate illegal slavers. They mentioned what consituted legal and illegal enslaving. Though as a soldier I didn’t need an explanation, I am still rather grateful they have provided it, and use it as a reference now.
As for blaming me whether I understand it or not, that’s to judge for actual Imperials, not for people who are known for lies and breaking oaths!
To have a privilege to estimate my knowledge you need to be more merited.
I believe I have answered on this already to Mr. Aloga.
So, now I will ask this question to you: what makes you THINK that being one of “your people” shall give you immunity from penal punishment?..
Divine duty or not, it’s their space and only THEY can set rules there, not foreigners. Especially not foreigners that believe that their bloodlines shall give them immunities.
You have your own Republic, where you can set your own rules and do all sort of your favorite illegal heresies as much as you want. However with the attitude you have, I believe having your own Republic won’t last for very long!
- As has been explained to you, there are a lot of slaves in the Empire that are not in criminal but rather hereditary slavery, and whose ancestors also did not commit a crime to make them slaves.
- Before my people became slaves in the Empire, they lived in a Minmatar nation, under Minmatar law. Even if they all were criminals, the Amarr did not have the jurisdiction to enslave them and to continue to hold their descendants as a consequence.
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I know! I missed a few days more than you did, and hundreds more posts appeared in the latest yes-no conversation.
Erica grins sarcastically and jokes:
Clearly, the right Amarr haven’t been pinged. I, on the other hand, have been fully briefed on the current and future master plans of the Empire. And since it was asked so very nicely, I’ll share it with you all. But let me start by acknowledging:
Yes! We’re going to reclaim everybody! Woot woot! Hurray!
However, for our Caldari friends the reclaiming won’t involve slavery and bloodshed, because when we met them they had already evolved far beyond the stone age and they are civilized and reasonable people.
So then how exactly is this going to happen, I hear you ask? It’s going to be a more of a give and take thing, let me lay out the detailed plan for you. We’ll confer Holder titles and privileges to the Caldari CEO’s, making them “Holder based on hereditary merit.” And they’ll reciprocate by granting Amarrian Holders the title of “CEO based on meritous heritage.” Next, we’ll include megacorp mission statements in Scripture. And some Scripture will be added to megacorp mission statements. Step by step, the present megacorps as well as the Heir Houses will be transformed into religious Amadari megacorporations that will rule the cluster!
Religious merit will be based on efficiency and key performance indices set up by the Exective Theology Council Panel headed by the Empress-Chairwoman. The invisible hand of the free market will finally be attached to God again, and it will be brilliant and unstoppable!
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I’ve got that part, and I really can’t stand for punishment of children for crimes of parents. On the other hand, if you see slavery as paying off the debt to the Empire, then it’s totally acceptable - debts are inherited. If parents did so much crime that working to compensate it in whole lifetime won’t be enough, yes, work of descendants can be accepted. There is also another side of it: you can see the actual act of punishment is lowering a social status of a convict into social status of a slave. Those who are born into slavery aren’t punished, as they were born as slaves and their social status wasn’t lowered. It’s like… if parents are Holders, children are holders, if parents are commoners, children are commoners, and if parents are slaves - then children are slaves. We here don’t use such system because we think it’s unfair and archaic, but Imperials choose it for themselves, because it’s their Way, and only they can decide for themselves.
It was conquered and space of Minmatar Empire became space of Amarr Empire. It is a well known fact that the invaders enforce their own laws on the conquered territories.
Since the Minmatar Empire was defeated and de-facto collapsed, losing any factual means of enforcing their laws, these laws have completely lost their power and were replaced by Imperial laws of that time.
So how long would the Caldari State have to be under Federal conquest and rule, before you gave up trying to regain what you lost and accepted their right to impose their laws on you? A month? A year? A decade? A century?
The Caldari State will be under Federal conquest and rule only after the last Caldari will die. But speaking actually, when foreign occupants bring their authority - they bring their laws. If you stay on that territory as a civilian, you have to submit to their laws, or you will be criminal. If you don’t like new laws - leave. If you don’t like new laws and don’t want your land to be in foreign hands - JOIN THE ARMY.
As a soldier of the State my duty is to make sure our Citizens don’t suffer under unfair Federal laws.
Our homeworld is still partly occupied by the enemies - and no way we’re giving up until we die or it comes back to us in full!
And what should you do, if the Feds conquer the place you are at, take you prisoner, and make you and your descendants live on their lands as slaves? You are in their lands, so according to you their laws apply. Would you just submit?
I am a Caldari officer! I am not surrendering to enemy alive, death is better than dishonor!
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No, that’s not my goal. Perhaps this is a discussion best continued anywhere but the IGS.
It is not that I do not admire the Minmitar spirit that makes them so steadfast in their desire to be independent and for what they believe is their right to be independent, however, those things are against what we believe. Unfortunately, that strong spirit is aimed at the wrong purpose and must be redirected.
Life is not about doing whatever feels good, or sounds fun, and to just do whatever you feel like doing. Life is actually a trial, test, and requires you to have discipline and actually make an effort in your life for salvation. To serve something other than yourself.
You know good and well Elsebeth, that we do have our Divine purpose, and we feel just as strongly about that as you do your freedom and for your people to wallow in sin. We will pursue that Divine charge with much vigor. And I expect you all will continue to pursue your independence with much vigor as well, I do not hate you and your people for that, but it does not change what we must do.
Do you propose that we stop as an insult? Are you insinuating that we have less faith in our God than you have love for your Sin? You and your Republic are in love with sin and our faith in God is unbreakable, therefore our Empires will continue to clash.
One day, the high spirited Minmatar Republic will be brought to its knees, and to justice by the laws of God. The long process of healing your rebellious people will once again continue and the path to redemption will approach. The Minmatar Republic has chose this path to redemption, the Khanid chose a different path and did not require generations of slavery in pursuit of redemption.
One day, the Minmatar will be saved, and they will have earned their redemption and will be a vital part of the Amarr Empire. One day I believe, as impossible as it may seem at this moment, the Amarr Empire will have a Minmatar Emperor or Empress and will continue that divine purpose, much like there is a Udorian Empress now, a race which also suffered a similar hard path to salvation.
It is up to you and your people to submit or not, you got that option, but it does lay the path to redemption that you will take. We will save you and your people, either willingly, or we will drag you to redemption kicking and screaming. It appears the choice has been made though.
It is not however, my choice on how things proceed, it is Empress Catiz I who will guide us in our divine purpose, but the Minmatar Republic does have choices that they can make, or have already made.
I guess that’s one way to make prophets.
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Then why do you insist that other people should do what you would not?
Look, let’s settle this. You non-Amarr have three choices:
- Conversion.
- Slavery.
- Death.
That so many so-called Amarrian loyalists refuse to admit this is further proof that the Empire has become wayward and liberal because the Throne is Vacant.
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@Nauplius Please say this is how you roleplay in the bedroom too?
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And that’s why the Fede… I mean, and that’s why you, dear Mr. Nauplius, are not an Emperor of Amarr Empire.
Heideran VII understood that it’s profitable and beneficial for all to live in peace, prosperity and harmony with neighbors.
By trying to enforce your cultural ideals onto others by means of violence, you aren’t really better than the same Minmatars you so hate, who are fighting you just because they don’t like slavery. Or same gallenteans, who bring their democraZy with weapons.
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