Off-Topic Thread vol. 2

[Valerie_Valate]

It says today is your forum cakeday. Congratulations I guess ?

[Ange_des_Larmes]

You are very cute, Di-Di. I can’t deny!

[Veikitamo_Gesakaarin]

@Valerie_Valate

Was that one of those social science subjects ? It sounds awful.

It was awful. Fortunately, my years of posting on the IGS prepared me well for the pettiness and pedantry of academia.

[Octavech_Raholan]

I am afraid that comparing Code to a mold is a grave insult to the mold-kind.

[Ange_des_Larmes]

My dear, I resemble that remark! Be careful of your choice of words…

[Ax_l_Thorne]

So, tell is how you really feel. Don’t hold back. It’s best to get such things off your chest.

[Remilia_Malitia]

@Aldrith_Shutaq

I am going to go out on a limb here and call the warzone hellscape planet trapped in an alternate reality without a sun an environmental lost cause.

What?

[Sahara_Jackal]

He’s deeply confused, Remilia.

[Rusty_Tsero]

The sun didn’t go anywhere. You can see it, clear as day.

[Arrendis]

@Octavech_Raholan

comparing Code to a mold

Split the difference? ‘Cold’?

[Arrendis]

I couldn’t see it last night!

[Diana_Kim]

Moving this here since it becomes a bit broader than just Intaki.

@Gosakumori_Noh

Now, don’t take this the wrong way, darling, but I believe the word “freedom” earlier prevented you from appreciating the full ramifications of “freedom to speak cannot be abridged” paired with “money is speech.” It is a lesson in political efficiency the State could derive substantial returns from studying. Similarly, the Empire would do well to wrap its head around the true implications of consumer finance.

More like a lesson of political inefficiency.
Well, I don’t like the word ‘politics’, it smells with gallentean nonsence. It’s a question of management and leadership.

Just like you wouldn’t want to have soup made by shoemaker and wear clothes knit manually by a miner, or would you like your trainer to be a cheese degustator, and your math teacher to be a linguist who can’t even take derivatives… Just in the same manner if you want a professional decision in leadership and management, you need this decision to be taken by professional leaders and managers, by military commanders for example.

@Gosakumori_Noh

As president, I remain studiously neutral with respect to what decision the miners, cooks, farmers, janitors, war heroes, and traveling salesmen reach with respect to Leave or Remain. My suspicion is slightly more than half would elect to Leave due to an unshakable belief Mannar were taking all the good jobs, but it is more difficult to predict how distribution of the Leave population would determine which systems Actually Left. Systems which did Leave would be accorded all privileges and considerations shown other fully independent spatial bodies of comparable economic significance.

While I do fully support for systems to leave, I simply do not trust that decision to be put on shoulders on those who weren’t trained and educated to take such decisions and have no experience in these areas.

It’s not about being neutral, it’s about taking proper professionals for the corresponding job. It’s about efficiency, rationality and about avoiding mistakes.

@Gosakumori_Noh

I anticipate my Intaki initiative would engender agitation in the Mandate for something similar. As a president, a patron of arts, a celebrant of freedom, the cluster’s foremost cyber geneticist, and most of all, a humanitarian, I would direct my administration to provide all assistance requested with respect to that issue.

Do you realize though that you can’t be a celebrant of chaos and humanitarian at the same time?

[Gosakumori_Noh]

@Diana_Kim

More like a lesson of political inefficiency.

No darling I’m afraid we are still not communicating. If you ruminate on the following two federal principles, provided you get passed the “federal” part, you will see it:

1. Speech, including political speech, must be kept free from government regulation.

2. Any individual, and corporations are individuals for present purposes, must therefore be free to purchase any amount of political speech they can afford.

The President Noh Intaki Initiative On Should They Remain Or Should They Leave will be no different, and every entity with skin in the game (or not, for that matter) will be free to speak to the full extent of its capability to do so.

I am not completely sure where the myth of federal “egalitarianism” got started, exactly. It sounds to me like something those Star Fraction (Fraction? Faction?) sweeties described as what they wanted to be the case, but which was not actually the case (which they themselves recognized). What is “equal” is that everyone is “equal” when it comes to spending absolutely as much of their own money as they could possibly desire to get whatever they could possibly want.

Now, it so happens that Roden, ORE, and the rest of that insidious Deep Bureaucracy have taken this equality one step further. They spend absolutely as much of the public treasury as they could possibly want on their own selfish needs. Once my Civire trained White Feather Special Weapons And Tactics AbsoluteSafety™ Drone Dome is in place, that Soggy Bog will be drained.

@Ange_des_Larmes darling, how did you put it? You had such a wonderful description of the Soggy Bog, something to do with semi permeable aquifers… it was poetry, darling, but I don’t remember which thread. Even at the time I thought, “oh, this is marvelous, I must copy it.” Then I didn’t copy it, because you do things like that when you’re a few centuries old.

[Diana_Kim]

@Gosakumori_Noh

• Speech, including political speech, must be kept free from government regulation.
• Any individual, and corporations are individuals for present purposes, must therefore be free to purchase any amount of political speech they can afford.

I completely disagree with first point, since it means allowing committing hatecrimes and personal attacks, reputation damages and slanders which are not allowed in any civilized society.

While second point looks rational. If you got yourself enough merit and money to back your words, you can spread your words for your money… again, provided they don’t violate anything.

@Gosakumori_Noh

I am not completely sure where the myth of federal “egalitarianism” got started, exactly. It sounds to me like something those Star Fraction (Fraction? Faction?) sweeties described as what they wanted to be the case, but which was not actually the case (which they themselves recognized). What is “equal” is that everyone is “equal” when it comes to spending absolutely as much of their own money as they could possibly desire to get whatever they could possibly want.

I am glad you understand that egalitarianism is nothing but a myth. In fact, it might be a bit more than just a myth - it is a disrupting ideology, if not outright extremism and attack on core values of Humanity and Nature itself. Just simply because nobody ever was born equal. It’s self evident, that there will be beautiful people and ugly people, smart and dumb, naive and wise, rich and poor, strong and weak. This is the way of life, and we all shall strive to forge ourselves to become better, while understanding who we are and what are our limits.

@Gosakumori_Noh

Now, it so happens that Roden, ORE, and the rest of that insidious Deep Bureaucracy have taken this equality one step further. They spend absolutely as much of the public treasury as they could possibly want on their own selfish needs. Once my Civire trained White Feather Special Weapons And Tactics AbsoluteSafety™ Drone Dome is in place, that Soggy Bog will be drained.

In that way I wish you good luck and good profits in your endeavors. If nobody could fix the Federation to turn this inhuman criminal regime into something more acceptable and friendly to neighbors, maybe you will be able to?

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Gosakumori_Noh

Speech, including political speech, must be kept free from government regulation.

All speech in the Federation is regulated. Don’t believe me? Say something the ruling class doesn’t want you to say and they slap on the law suits.

Julian Flavours got a taste of this when Ed slapped a cease and desist on him for his Jackal-commerant thing. The suppression of free speech disguised as “preventing slander and mis-information for the average Gallente citizen.” As you can see the ruling class even believes that the average Gallente citizen is too stupid to think on their own and do their own research and make up their own minds.

I’ll maintain my position that Federation is more insidious than the State, in that they mislead their constituents into believing they have some sort of say in how their government works.

[Mika_Firestorm]

@Ax_l_Thorne

All speech in the Federation is regulated. Don’t believe me? Say something the ruling class doesn’t want you to say and they slap on the law suits.

Nope, not regulated.
If you say something the actual government doesn’t like, you simply disappear, without any lawsuits.

[Ax_l_Thorne]

From:

@Mika_Firestorm

Nope, not regulated.

To:

@Mika_Firestorm

If you say something the actual government doesn’t like, you simply disappear, without any lawsuits.

That sounds like regulation to me. Thank you for validating my point.

[Mika_Firestorm]

Regulation would be more like “If you say this, you’ll get that.” And if they say, “Oh, we have freedom, speak whatever you like!”
– “But Caldari are good people, why are we attacking them?”
Aaand… you disappear.

Then it’s not really a regulation.

[Gosakumori_Noh]

@Diana_Kim

I completely disagree with first point, since it means allowing committing hatecrimes and personal attacks, reputation damages and slanders which are not allowed in any civilized society.

Now we are clicking, darling! You are correct in that the freedom of expression guaranteed by federal principles allows for harmful speech. There are limitations and jurisdictional variances, but the burden of proof is high for anyone claiming injury from another’s words. For “public figures” the protections are nigh unavailable.

I am not saying the policy is without flaws.

Instead, I am saying that, when combined with the second principle, we arrive at:

@Diana_Kim

If you got yourself enough merit and money to back your words, you can spread your words for your money

From here, although “direct democracy” does not work explicitly in the way you describe, it does end up being the case that the people able to speak the most have the most impact on the result. While the only people eligible to vote will be federal citizens residing in Intaki systems, that limitation does not apply to the people able to speak - see Principle (1). You yourself would be perfectly within your rights, as a speaker, to present your argument to the Intaki public with as much capital behind it as you desired.

And as President, I most definitely promise to fix a great many things.

[Ax_l_Thorne]

@Mika_Firestorm

Regulation would be more like “If you say this, you’ll get that.”

So again, you made my point.

Flavours was sensationalizing a rumor of a relationship between Ed and Sahara.

Ed is a capsuleer and has, apparently some significant pull in the Federal government, making him part of the ruling class. He slapped a lawsuit on flavours because he was concerned that the minority of Gallente citizens that would read that trash would actually believe it.

He regulated the freedom of speech, in that, he striped it from Flavours all because he didn’t like what flavours was saying.

Sounds like your definition of regulation as well.