That seems like a silly way to make an inspirational example of Saints. I mean, it basically tells all the little Amarrlings ‘Hey, be as much of an ass as you like. Be downright evil if you want! All that matters is when God says ‘Murder that dickhead’, you murder the living crap out of them. Nobody’ll bother remebering what a blasphemous douche you were the other 400 years of your life!’
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Well, considering the atrocities many of them commit, it makes sense that they would be inspired by someone like that.
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Yes. The moment of perfect sanctity and sacrifice could indeed make up for a great deal of prior human failing. Though I truly doubt that anyone who went beyond human failing into actual God denying sin would ever be blessed with such a transcendent moment.
There are also many different kinds of Saints. But martyrs, like Tetrimon, are saints because of that moment of sacrifice. They embody rising to the challenge and not hesitating when they are given the test of faith. Dwelling on the rest would diminish what is morally important about their story.
Meanwhile other saints lack that single perfect moment of self sacrificial devotion, but make up for it through a life of perfect devotion and good works. Their stories tend to be somewhat more detailed, because it is their life that is the point, rather than their death.
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And yet, as certain Khanid capsuleers demonstrate, there’s a whole lot of room for mass-murdering evil in God’s name. Kinda my point, you know? By focusing on that one moment, you pave the way for the whole argument of ‘I am a monster for God, and that makes it all ok.’
When really, the only reason Tetrimon’s a saint is because his side won. If one of the followers of the person he killed had successfully taken the throne, for example, then Tetrimon would be reviled, and his victim hailed as a martyr instead. Obviously, there were structural reasons that would have been difficult, but I think you take my point.
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What a succinct summary of literally all of human history.
The Empire is still a human edifice, despite its divine inspiration. It is imperfect and shall remain so until the final revelations to be added to the Scriptures. Sometimes might makes right. Indeed, sometimes might is all there is. In the eternal struggle to master ourselves and one another, in the moments of desperate violence we engage in to exert our will over those we believe to be wrong or merely in the way of providence, God shows His favour to those with the skill and determination to achieve victory. We can only pray that by the end of it we have picked the right fights and fought in a righteous enough way to have earned salvation, be we an Empyrean war machine or a religious scholar who stuck a dagger into a false emperor.
We are all but human. I, at least, do not make any claims to the contrary. We do not always know the right path, but, dear God, we are trying.
Now, I believe this conversation is straying considerably from its original subject.
As an update, the forces of the 24th Imperial Crusade have repelled several concerted counter-attacks upon the system of Floseswin. With skill and determination, we facilitate Lord Arrach Sarum’s will to conquer the fourth planet. The world has been declared a land of devotion or damnation. Then so be it. Once, on the verge of defeat, it seemed as though all would be damned, but now there is hope. Martyrdom is no longer the only path for our paladins. Instead, there is victory. If there is no retreat, salvation is found past your fallen enemy. I intend to help lead our way to it.
I admire the bravery of the Matari here, in space and on the surface. Surely we are a fearsome foe to face when we are at strength. But though I may wish to forgive their apostasy, it is not my right to do so. We shall fight to the end, as surely they shall as well. I will not bother to ask for their surrender; they fear submission more than death and oblivion. I will weep for their mistake another time. For now, to war.
For I shall not be written out of history by the likes of them, or any other enemy that chooses to face me.
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I am pretty good like that, yeah.
If that’s the case, then literally any time you lose a fight, it’s ‘God’s disfavor’. I mean, is he really so fickle?
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Not at all.
Losing a fight? Such is life. Losing a battle? A test of resolve. Losing a war? Perhaps time to rethink things and come back to it. Losing the Empire? That is when we’ll know we have displeased Him.
Should that happen, it merely means we must work harder to return to His grace.
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I mean, that’s basically what happened, right?
Sure, if you don’t care about any of the actual underlying lessons to be learned, like ‘Why hasn’t DBRB had battleship keys for the last seven years?’
I would say the Holy Empire learned a lot from Vak’Atioth and the Matari abnegation. On the benefits of peace to rebuild strength and power in order to return to a more robust Reclaiming at a later date, such as is happening in Floseswin.
So the benefits of lying and acting in bad faith?
The Reclaiming was never renounced.
No, but treaties were signed. Offered by the Amarr, no less—CONCORD, for example. To offer peace with the intention of renewed violence later is a lie. It is the act of deceivers, not those who claim to offer truths.
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The truth is that the Pax Amarria was promulgated by late Imperial Majesty Heideran VII. A new truth has been promulgated by Her Most Sublime Majesty Catiz I.
That’s part of the truth, yes.
However, by committing the Empire to CONCORD, Heideran entered the Empire into an open-ended commitment to peace. If, as you claim, that commitment was made with the intention of eventual war, that commitment was a lie. If the Empire currently intends to resume widespread Reclaiming by the sword, then the Empire’s continued membership in CONCORD—which includes a commitment to peace, outside of the limited scope of Militia Wars—is a lie.
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I cannot presume to know the motives of the Holy Throne. However, I am not blind to see that the century of peace has prepared the Empire well to undertake religious duties such as in Floseswin.
Oh, come now. You can’t go offering up clear interpretations of intention, ie ‘in order to’, and then claim you wouldn’t presume to know motives. Without presuming motive and intention, there’s no way to really say what lessons someone might take from a given event. Maybe the lesson learned was ‘stop being a bunch of colossal idiots’, and Catiz has forgotten it, rather than learned anything about preparedness. Maybe not. It’s impossible to say without presuming motives.
But then, that’s a common event among some Empire loyalists: wild speculation made with utter certainty, only to backtrack and insist ‘oh, it isn’t my place to presume to know’… right after doing exactly that.
If you’re going to insist that you don’t have the station or standing to say what intentions or motives other have, that’s fine. Just, you know… don’t.
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I see nothing in error making clear the nature of speculation on my part.
Your presentation came with all of the lack of uncertainty so typical of the Amarr. And that lack of uncertainty, well, certainly doesn’t present itself as humble speculation. Take more care in how you offer up speculation, if you wish it to to come across as less than declarations of knowledge.
Yes, I should have used a caveat in my initial statement regarding the nature of my own interpretations and speculation. However, I would say my interpretation stands: CONCORD was a means to an end, and not the end in and of itself.