One Way to Balance High-Security Space 🗡

Communications Center General Discussion
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yeah, its not easy, but at the same time it was just a thought, based on what EVE University said, they’re denied gate access to i was like “why even let them into the system in the first place then?” not to be intended as a genuine idea to be implemented more a curiosity of why this idea ISN’T implemented, like i said, i’m trying to get a feel for things and understand a whole bunch of stuff atm as i’m not mainly a combat pilot, when i get my tower back i’m hoping that will change.

so just trying to figure stuff out, see what problems people have had, see what possible solutions i can throw out there. see what shakes loose from the old grey matter.

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Thanks to unlimited free Alpha accounts, placing restrictions on -10 players has absolutely no effect. They can have 50 Alpha accounts training in the background to be Catalyst/Talos/Tornado gankers. As soon as that toon hits -10 sec status, biomass it and go to the next toon that is already ready to go…

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83

Thanks, Drogon.

As far as I can tell, CCP tries to leave players a little wriggle-room when handing out penalties. If they went full-on with the restrictions, they know that they would effectively end criminal activity as a career path in the game. That would have knock-on effects elsewhere in the game, although the possible extent of such consequences is hotly debated, usually in the Crime and Punishment sub-forum. Perhaps you should give it a look?

You’re doing the right thing by reading up on all this and posting your request for explanations here. I applaud your willingness to have-a-go!

Even if you aren’t a combat pilot now, you’ll be in a much better position when you do get going in industry, trade, or whatever - than the thousands of miners and haulers who don’t take the opportunity to look at the game more broadly.

Good luck to you!

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thanks man! yeah i agree about having some wiggle room, for me with your post in mind, its a shame that they took smuggling out of the game, i know IRL there was a lot of political stuff going on in the world regarding drugs and thus it caused changes in the game. but honestly i think one thing for sure, smuggling should be able to come back while leaving pilot combat boosters alone in terms of legality. simply by making profitable trade routes between NPC factions for example or rolling it into the new FW stuff coming out, smuggling legal in one area and illegal in another area could be pretty fun.

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Rather I think there should be bonuses for going 5.0 and -10.

Different reward tracks but also different bonuses.

There needs to be incentives to go to low again.

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It’s less about what would be ‘right’ or ‘fair’ or even ‘reasonable’ and more about “what would make for interesting and varied gameplay”?

I don’t believe the current criminal management system leads to very interesting gameplay. Ganking can pay for itself while also satisfying the “I got my kill” urge. There is no corresponding ‘career’ option for being a space-cop as is there is for a pirate, for instance. (Roleplaying isn’t a career.)

At the moment a fair number of criminal players play it very safe in high sec in comparatively cheap ships with little risk that their playstyle will be disrupted. That’s not to say it’s easy or low effort - the current restrictions require some dancing about to make the career profitable.

And as Gix said, there’s just not enough reasons for players on either side of the fence to go to low sec for opportunities. That requires more than tweaking the criminal standings though. And as Quakegod said, any standings/penalty/restriction oriented approach would just be dealt with by endless cycles of biomassed Alphas.

CCP has addressed too many core game issues over the years with a nerf here, a tweak there, a balance change elsewhere. Or just by removing the playstyle altogether.

I don’t have any particular beef with the current system, other than it leads to boring and stale “low hanging fruit” styles of gameplay. If it was going to be redone, I’d like to see some wider changes that would invigorate a lot of different gameplay options.

Just tossing out some ideas without real consideration, but to spark some thought:

  • Abyssals tier 5+ can only be run in low
  • Most level 4 agents moved to low (esp. burner missions), payout increased
  • Ships need an ‘energy core’ based on DPS vs. ship size, so that ‘gankfits’ (and all combat ships) are more worthwhile to hunt
  • To fly pirate faction or navy ships, you need the appropriate ‘faction booster’ - lasts 90 days, bought at an LP type store, need the appropriate standing with that faction to purchase (could perhaps have 30 and 180-day variants with higher cost/standing required)
  • Space-cop/bounty hunting should be as viable a career as piracy - needs to be a payout method
  • Possibly make 1.0 and 0.9 “red safety locked”, leave 0.8-0.6 as high, shift 0.5 to low, make 0.5 to 0.3 sub-cap only, 0.2 and under allows caps.
  • If any docking limitations are part of criminality, then allow for “pirate haven” player stations that provide all services to criminals but are at risk of destruction.

Some people will say “X could never work” and provide some counter-example or exploit etc. Which is fine, they’re not essential ideas. I will just point out that I agree with someone (Xucca maybe?) who said “there are no exploits, only poorly written code”.

For instance when people say “if you have payout for killing criminals then criminals will just farm themselves with alts”. So you make the payout a percentage of destroyed value. You can’t get ahead when you have to destroy 10 million to get paid 5.

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Locking out red safety in 1.0 and 0.9 systems would only encourage players to farm asteroid belts and anomalies in perfect safety. That would also end ganking in Jita and Perimeter. No thanks…

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I’ve suggested 4s and higher lvl abyssals be slide down to low.

It would def make things interesting.

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I think this may be a misunderstanding of what the EVE Uni wiki says.

A character that has a criminal timer, and who hadn’t done anything that would warp them before they receive the criminal timer, is locked in place while they are still in their ship. Once they’ve been CONCORDed, they can move and jump gates as normal, even while still carrying the criminal timer.

A -10 security status character is an Outlaw and can operate in highsec with some modifications to how they move because they’ll be chased around by Faction Police, but they can jump gates no problem.

So the only time a criminal can’t jump a gate aside from the normal reasons that prevents anyone jumping gate (eg. still have a weapons timer) is for the few seconds after committing an illegal act, while they are still in their ship.

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90

wow many great responses here, thank you all for posting!

@Scipio_Artelius i probably did read it wrong, i am dyslexic, ssometimes after reading things 10 times and even real slow, i still get it wrong, sometimes its funny, sometimes its frustrating, what you have said about being able to jump gates with criminal standing is one of the things that threw me, because how i read it on eve university makes it seem like you can’t do anything.

@Gix_Firebrand as someone who was a mission runner i think moving level 4’s to low sec opens up the problem of crossing into a new play style demographic, a player who is running missions wants to PVE or at least is currently in a PVE fit, these mission runners would have a harder time grinding standings if they had to deal will small gang pirate groups hunting them down every time they do a mission, the NPC’s in the site then simply become extra DPS against you.

i do think sec status should go from -10 to +10 instead of up to just +5

@Kezrai_Charzai i agree the current system in my mind works and i don’t ultimately have any issue with it, i was however thinking that it would be interesting if each time you ganked someone, not only would there be a loss of sec status but a loss of standings from all groups operating within that empire faction even amongst your own faction, this could help point people towards the faction warfare side of things. but maybe thats just a bit much.

out of your list of ideas to provoke thought, just FYI i’m working on bounty hunting, more on that much much later.

but the faction booster idea i actually like, speaking strictly for the faction ships i like the idea that within the lore you need to either have a set faction standing which allows the onboard systems of the ship to interact with you, or you can take a booster, earlier in the post I mentioned about smuggling, maybe criminal groups can make faction boosters and they can be smuggled around the game, I actually love that thought

use the booster to interact with the ship, like a genetic requirement, instead of it just being a skills requirement.

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91

I feel if they want the reward, they should take the risk :smiley:

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No one is going to run L4 mining or distribution missions in low sec for a 1 million ISK payout…

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Of course not. I feel if its moved the payout should be upped.

Basically that you can make ok ISK in HS in relative safety but if you want the bigger bucks, gotta go low/null/WH/pochpoch.

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I feel once you’ve gotten to level 4 missions you’ve kind of experienced the peek experience of a solo player, level 5’s are intended to be group activities but most corps don’t seem to run them as missions from what i’ve seen you have to multibox to do those.

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i disagree with moving lv4’s to losec only…be careful @Gix_Firebrand you dont become like Lucas for this particular item…since the idea is about as dangerous as his.

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Not really?

It would simply make the carebears cry more.

I am well aware most people in high sec want to hide and farm ISK. They still can. Just at a reduced rate :smiley:

They can use those marauders on 3s LOL. Or just hop in a drake.

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Now on topic…

I feel the Elephant in the room is the fact there is no Law side of things for players to RP…
CCP shut off the bounty system,

Where instead they could of worked on making the bounty system much better, for example make being a Bounty Hunter a real thing to play with its own small set of skills and mechanics and stuff to becoming and being one.

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If you whole reasoning is for salt mining…then please just stfu then for you are as bad as Lucas Kell then and simply trying to derail this thread and be a griefer asshole.

I suggest the OP flag the post im replying to and this reply to it, as for me this is the last time im going to speak with you GIx on this…ill just stat flagging myself…the Topic is the Criminal system.

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Bro, take a deep breath :smiley:

Repeat to yourself, “It’s just a vidya game.”

It actually isn’t just for salt mining. The criminal system could do with some tweaking, but in reality moving 4s to low would help stimulate the game.

Ideally to me it should be like this:

  1. HS: Able to make decent ISK in relative safety, but it’ll take you a lot longer to get de rich
  2. Low: Bigger risk, bigger reward to balance out the danger
  3. WH/Null/Pochpoch: Again, big rewards for bigger danger. Null actually might need a re-work TBH.

As for the criminal system, yes I believe there should be bonuses for positive sec in HS and negative sec in LS.

I do wish they’d add something in like a bounty hunter system. It would add a ton of content.

I also wish being an outlaw came with perks and benefits too.

Now then, don’t you feel even a little embarrassed for that tantrum you just threw?

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well there has been a lot of discussion on this thread so far, i’m glad it has come back to the main subject though, i find your thoughts on bounty hunting interesting and the criminal system. see bounty hunting works within the aspect of civil law where as law enforcement works within the realm of criminal law.

bounty hunters IRL work for bonds companies who establish financial contracts with criminals and post the bail for them, if the client doesn’t show up, the bonds company has to pay the court, normally when a bail company posts your bond in liquid cash, someone must back it with assets this way if they default they can seize those assets but then are legally bound to bring you in as they have an agreement to to ensure you arrive for your trail.

where as role playing as a cop/space police is different it should be those who want to do that who intentionally hunt down criminals, however there is a lack of support for this in game and would require 3rd party development. CCP has put a lot of things in the game as base elements to create certain play styles this also creates over lap of play styles creating the wonderful space politics game we all play.