OUR servers are fine, everything is working perfect!

[CCP_Explorer]

Some EVE players who are customers of Deutsche Telekom AG (DTAG) and have been affected recently by random disconnects have reported to us that they have resolved the issue by installing https://cloudflarewarp.com/, which is software from Cloudflare, and using it in full WARP mode. You can read more about this software here https://blog.cloudflare.com/warp-for-desktop/ and here Windows desktop client · Cloudflare WARP client docs. Please note that I’m not requiring, asking or recommending that you install any software on your computer and take no responsibility for this particular software; I’m only relaying the experience of other DTAG customers.

This software is essentially a Cloudflare-specific VPN: “The WARP application uses BoringTun to encrypt all the traffic from your device and send it directly to Cloudflare’s edge, ensuring that no one in between is snooping on what you’re doing. If the site you are visiting is already a Cloudflare customer, the content is immediately sent down to your device.”

Given that Tranquility is serviced by Cloudflare’s network, then if customers of DTAG are able to bypass the disconnect issues by using a Cloudflare VPN-style application, then the root of the disconnect issue is clearly at DTAG.

If you do decide to try this out, please let us know if the disconnects stop.

[CCP_Explorer]

Further, DTAG customers may want to consider adding their complaint to https://telekomhilft.telekom.de/t5/Telefonie-Internet/BGP-Flaps-Long-lived-TCP-Connections/td-p/5814336 on DTAG’s forums.

I want to comment on that thread:

Ist halt kein Telekom Problem … die nutzen das Peering was der Anbieter vorgibt.

We have seen this happen at ISPs, where they do get the correct BGP information from Cloudflare on the route to Tranquility but the ISPs’ equipment either has out-of-memory issues or a prefix limit and throws the correct routing information away.

Level3 kann halt nen Problem sein, da die neben ner super ausgebauten Autobahn zum Telekom Netz auch ne billige Schotterpiste haben.

We have seen both versions of this issue. Firstly then we actually disable all routing via Level 3 as much as we can on and from our network equipment as many EVE players have had Level 3 related issues in the past. In particular then EVE players in South America and Mexico at certain ISPs were earlier this year unable to even connect to Tranquility before we cut Level 3 off as much as we could by not peering with them in London. Secondly, some ISPs may choose to ignore BGP routing if they have a cheaper exit point off their network.

Telekom ist nen Tier-1 Provider … wenn CCP den größten Kundenstamm in Europa (das Telekom AS ist auch für deren Konzerneinheiten in den anderen Ländern da) erreichen will, müssen se halt bissel Geld in die Hand nehmen.

Such as hosting Tranquility at Cloudflare? We have already done that, but even then we have seen large ISPs then fail at keeping steady connections to Cloudflare.

Im Telekom Netz ist alles fein. CCP bzw. deren Provider muss schauen, was se da in deren Peering Bereich so treiben bzw. bestellen.

I can’t make any claims on what is wrong in this particular case, but experience from similar incidents tells us that the issues such as this one are always in the ISPs’ networks. I’ve also repeatedly had network admins at large ISPs tell me that all is fine in their network but when presented with date over the course of days or even weeks then they ultimately find the cause in their networks. Which is why I always start with finding a possible cause at the ISP before moving to finding a cause at Cloudflare or in our own network equipment. Issues in our own equipment manifests very differently - normally then multiple users spread over the world are having issues. With high probability then localised issues have localised root causes.

Dazu ist es bei “long lived” TCP-Connections (was für ein Buzzword, es sind stinknormale TCP-Verbindungen) vollkommen egal ob sich dabei zwischendurch die Route ändert, davon bekommen die Pakete gar nichts mit.

All stateful devices on the route will notice and send RST in response. No one connects directly to Tranquility but rather to firewalls, DDoS protection and TCP proxies on Cloudflare’s edge. You can read more about the setup here CCP Games | Cloudflare.

[CCP_Explorer]

We are moving all discussion on disconnect issues affecting customers of Deutsche Telekom AG to this new thread:

20220819 - Verbindungsprobleme (Deutschland) / Connection Issues (Germany)

Hallo zusammen, wir untersuchen gerade die Verbindungsprobleme, die in letzter Zeit manche Spieler in Deutschland betreffen, vornehmlich Kunden der Deutschen Telekom AG. Wenn bei euch seit dem 1. oder 2. August gehäuft Verbindungsunterbrechungen auftreten und euer Anbieter die Deutsche Telekom AG ist, dann erstellt bitte ein Support-Ticket. Lest bitte den Rest dieses Posts, um herauszufinden, wie ihr die Informationen bekommt, die im Ticket enthalten sein müssen. Eins vorweg: Bitte postet die…

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@CCP_Explorer

No.

What infuriates the player base more than bad communication is no communication. If something suspect is going on, it would really help those of us who are struggling to enjoy the game and trying to figure out what is going on, to know what CCP can see, that we cannot see.

@CCP_Convict

and you’ve been experiencing more disconnects since 1 - 2 August,

Three weeks ago. If I get more than 3 disconnects in an hour I give up and do something else. I am certain I would not be alone in eschewing EVE due to poor network connectivity. Putting up with it for three weeks is what, $15 USD of EVE wasted?

@CCP_Explorer

have reported to us that they have resolved the issue by installing https://cloudflarewarp.com/ , which is software from Cloudflare, and using it in full WARP mode.

Installed this software, running it now to gauge the practical effects. If EVE stays connected for the next 1 +23 ish hours I’ll call it a win.

@CCP_Explorer

Please note that I’m not requiring, asking or recommending that you install any software on your computer and take no responsibility for this particular software; I’m only relaying the experience of other DTAG customers.

As long as it does not boot.ini computers ( lol, I am a Mac user anyway ) this is a very welcome development.

@CCP_Explorer

We have seen this happen at ISPs, where they do get the correct BGP information from Cloudflare on the route to Tranquility but the ISPs’ equipment either has out-of-memory issues or a prefix limit and throws the correct routing information away.

Which is a whole other problem that should have some kind of consequences. Though no doubt there is some poor network architect or sysadmin begging their Pointy Haired Boss to put in decent network kit, but no, its not in the budget, no return on investment, not part of their KPI bonus plan…

@CCP_Explorer

Secondly, some ISPs may choose to ignore BGP routing if they have a cheaper exit point off their network.

If only there were constructs like network neutrality and common carrier regulations.

@CCP_Explorer

I’ve also repeatedly had network admins at large ISPs tell me that all is fine in their network but when presented with date over the course of days or even weeks then they ultimately find the cause in their networks.

Not surprised. It is going to be an uphill battle to get a point of contact at a large organisation who has the situational awareness to grasp the problem, even more difficult find one that will put down their actual work to care about the network issues of a bunch of nerds.

@CCP_Explorer

Issues in our own equipment manifests very differently - normally then multiple users spread over the world are having issues.

Yeah, we notice when a system has everyone suddenly log off. The beauty of this is that a spate of daily connection issues proved that a bunch of the AFK cloak campers, were indeed AFK. Perhaps in an ideal world EVE would not never disconnect. it would disconnect everyone at the same time, or disconnect nobody.

@CCP_Explorer

All stateful devices on the route will notice and send RST in response.

CCP knows this, yet for some reason, the EVE client has not been programmed to automatically reconnect. Is it too much to ask for the code to establish a new connection rather than just dumbly print a disconnection message?

Nobody would tolerate a browser shutting down just because a web page will not load…

[Spruillo]

As many lokis and such as I have lost to disconnects and undocking delays over the years, the temptation to check EVE out again after getting my first real gaming computer and fiber internet was brief.

Looked really awesome, in station, I bet it would have looked even more awesome had I left my lokis and tengus setting and undocked in my rookie ship but I never got that far. Never even got past catching up on all my assets personal and corporate without disconnecting twice after staring at loading graphic on blank inventory box for minutes.
That absolutely killed any temptation to resub, I just asked myself ‘what would be any different this time than the last 2-3 times you finally had enough and quit?’
I am absolutely sure if I somehow solved one connection issue, another would pop up about the time I was neck deep in a ded site in 2-3B loki.

[Algarion_Getz]

@Spruillo

That absolutely killed any temptation to resub, I just asked myself ‘what would be any different this time than the last 2-3 times you finally had enough and quit?’
I am absolutely sure if I somehow solved one connection issue, another would pop up about the time I was neck deep in a ded site in 2-3B loki.

Same! The connection issues are one of the many reasons why i will not resub. I have enough SP to do almost all highend PVE like DED sites and abyssals, but the random disconnects make undocking anything expensive super risky. That means i can’t do most of the lucrative PVE content EVE has to offer. I found out by trial and error that the more stuff was going on in the system and on the grid, the higher the chance for a random disconnect. My client with the AFK mining Orca in a quiet system would have a stable connection for hours, while my client with the mission blitzing Machariel would randomly disconnect 3 times per hour.

To be clear: Im not talking about the recent connection issues because i havent played EVE for over a year now.

[CCP_Explorer]

@Litsea_Reticulata

CCP knows this, yet for some reason, the EVE client has not been programmed to automatically reconnect. Is it too much to ask for the code to establish a new connection rather than just dumbly print a disconnection message?

Nobody would tolerate a browser shutting down just because a web page will not load…

A web page is not a real-time system that keeps on ticking. It is state-less and will just stay there until you come back. If you disconnect from EVE then the simulation carries on and we must re-connect you with your session. But the simulation won’t be in the same state as when you left. In fact, as soon as we detect that something is amiss, then you are automatically emergency-warped away. Your web page doesn’t do that. There isn’t a comparison here.

[Spruillo]

I have to add for fairness sake that I -have- been reimbursed before, after 60+ seconds black screen undocking and getting control just in time to hear hull claxons.

But that’s just session changes and undocking. Dropping out of warp and DC just as the screen swamps with red when the stuff your flying has real value is a deal breaker. I feel like the 2 disconnects without even undocking, thinking maybe it would be different with fiber internet, was an omen.

I briefly thought about cheap ships like a praxis or something, just to scratch the itch, but anytime I’ve tried that, I run hard and fast into the real limits of what it can do without 1+B of faction mods and then I might as well be back in my good old Loki.

@CCP_Explorer

In fact, as soon as we detect that something is amiss, then you are automatically emergency-warped away

I’ve had this happen before but not always. I’m open to the possibility yall do all yall can with the internet being what it is.

@Spruillo

What would give me good xmas cheer is if CCP first, set up livestream of CCP HQ. The busiest part besides the break room, that is. Or maybe the break room. Then, install fire-engine claxons in said space, and wire it to where they go off, every single time a player on Jita 4/4 spams the ‘dock’ button after sexy computer voice has already said 'Docking request accepted."

My compromise offer still stands, do this and I’ll resub 3 accounts for real hard earned money almost as much as my truck insurance each month.