Yeah, it really was the idea that we could actually do something about it that changed my mind.
Id been following the posts in the other thread, if they (the captas and other tools) werent too invasive theyd be grand, I think was where I came down on it.
But yes, proactive engagement EvE style would be good publicity too I think.
In that crusade, it was mostly disrupting the bots by opening trade windows.
Some did engage in bot destruction too, but as I understand it, it was at a personal loss.
Perplexingly, apparently they where told to stop Oo
There was never any further explanation of why.
Aside from the PIRAT Nyx debacle, its rare to make any isk off this, or sufficiently hurting the botters.
The reward is largely psychological.
I firmly believe that if the player base takes a more active interest in wrecking botting, we can come up with ways to hurt them harder and more efficiently.
Id wish CODE would jump onboard with this. As they are experts in ganking, they are instrumental towards finding the cheapest/most efficient ways to destroy bots.
Aside from the above, it will have to come from CCP side.
Man up and deal with bots systemically, especially by means of prevention, rather than after the fact remedial action.
I read on Minerbumping of the destruction of actual botting orcas, I think recently.
I sent Billy on a mission to open trade windows but sadly they had worked around it before he arrived.
Also, we should assume that some at least are reading these threads, so whatever things we do other than tell beg and threaten CCP will be known about. So in-game disruption needs to be pretty watertight.
Yeah, which highlights there are currently rather limited means for players to counter botting.
Often the botters can just make small changes to their scripts and continue.
Question: Are High Sec bots always using or required to use NPC stations, do we know?
Also, I fear Im going off-topic here.
I would like to say to the OP very good post and to the heart of the matter. In affect PIRAT made themselves a lot more efficient in hisec as a war decker by botting, this is cheating 101, no if buts or whats!
How so, well ability to war dec massed numbers, ability to use pimped up ships to full advantage, ability to have a mass of accounts, I could go on.
The only good point is that it makes beating them a fun challenge but still that is akin to being a masochist.
I don’t expect CCP to do anything with this, however it is just good to have it pointed out because the time I made them waste hours on me added to my own personal satisfaction even with the loss of a ship which they got by using the change corp in a pod trick, which I recently used against VMG to help a caught JF.
I am so glad you posted this and made it clear to the few people who use these forums and I also give real credit to CCP Falcons words which get to the heart of the matter. Perhaps he might have a shift in understanding in other areas…
PS Anyone getting a war dec should just cloaky camp every one of their bot ratting systems, seems fair…
Only if accessing missions there.
The courier missions are an anomaly, unlike other missions.
I dont see that botting would be useful for other mission types, as far as getting the mission is concerned, albeit they may run bots when actually running the mission.
Caveat: Some may run bots to visit agents in a chain of NPC stations and gather missions up, but aguably this is not harmful to the game, though it is cheating nonetheless.
Yeah sorry that occurred to me a minute ago too. Dang. For a moment I thought we could kill two birds with one stone: Cit Proliferation and Bots.
Hmm. Which made me think… are Cit-Based markets a vulnerable spot for all botting? If NPC stations WERE to be removed and EVERY station was vulnerable to destruction some time… but then I thought… New Eden would probably be already on fire long before we saw any actual results.
Absolutely no need to apologize.
All of us are still only beginning to seriously look at/understand this issue.
There probably are rudimentary bots that periodically freight commodities between Cits and/or NPC stations. Also rudimentary bots that run PI pickup rounds. Mining bots ofc also.
However, these bots are typically vulnerable per normal HS engagement mechanics.
They, cynically, are harming the game (mostly) only if they run continuously beyond the time an actual player could. ie: 23/7. Notice: I stress “cynically”.
Understanding the above, requires thinking of the issue in ways we arent used to.
But its important to understanding what bot activities to prioritize on, and informs what can be done about them in light of that.
I suppose the conclusions we can draw from that are:
Players need more freedom to engage bots in HS. This is very controversial, and amounts to a huge change to HS mechanics.
CCP needs to actively datamine for bots that run beyond the capacity any human could.
As I propose in the other thread, CCP should implement bot-tests that disable the bots for the time they are asleep and/if at work etc.
I salute your initiative but honestly you have no idea what you’re talking about. You can’t distinguish player from bot with a 100% certainty.
I dont believe that.
A bot-test that only a human can solve, is proof positive of whether the player is present, or not.
The point is not to identify between humans and bots, its to disrupt bots whilst the human is away, via a bot-test.
This should account for ~8hrs a day (sleep) for a NEET, and ~16hrs for people that work (sleep+work) where they cant access their EVE client frequently.
Thats 33% and 66% reduced efficient bot time respectively, per bot, compared to bots running 23/7 now.
It wont eliminate all botting, but it should make them eventually fail in the period the human is not at their PC, thus significantly reducing effective bot time.
You need to think about this issue in a new way, to see what Im driving at.
Take a minute to seriously think about what Im proposing.
And how about the other 30k players that will have to solve your captchas, how angry would they be? What you are trying to solve here is a problem that occured once the MMOS got popular. Far better prepared people have tried to solve this and failed miserably.
The only effective strategy is “report and act” strategy, where a player suspects there is a bot, reports and in the next couple of minutes tops a CCP employee is going to test that certain user suspected of botting, and even then the result is not 100%. There are bots who go offline when engaged in coversation or when people join local etc. CCP does not have this kind of resources.
HTFU, would be the typical EVE response.
The efficacy of that system is in serious doubt.
The bot Nyx fleet in OP may have run for years, as a case in point.
Your management and marketing skills are amazing. I think CCP should hire you.
Thank you.
A reputation EVE being a bot paradise is extremely bad publicity, and a huge demotivational factor for non-cheating existing/paying customers.
Just a heads up, Yaosus is a member of Vendetta Mercenary Group who are +10 with PIRAT, they work together a lot.
It is quite well known that many protection money, war deckers false merc groups like this are funded by some sort of sugar daddy and now we know who PIRAT’s one is.
+1.
CCP have a prolem. but in this time that will be not a Vexor )
That 8 Nyx bot. and all EVE looking on this. CCP need doing some thing.
If CCP dont answer people tomorrow bot x2. x5. x10 because people know that happen and CCP do nothing … Where critical situation.
Yeah, and Ive already seen his rebuttals issued by others that clearly are self-interested.
I already have the answers ready for them and eventually those will become rote.
This is a very good point.
That this Nyx bot fleet was run for possibly years by such a high-profile player, and was discovered only “by accident” by random players and his own flawed bot programming, shows other botters that there is little to no extant risk for their own activities, and encourages even more botting.
LOL 
Do I smell butthurt? CCP has the logs I believe they can verify everything. But in your case, there is no cure.