I don’t know what that has to do with ‘Player Count’.
Do you think that players being thieves in EVE has an impact on Player Count?
You’re trying too hard. Give it up.
What I’m doing is trying to consciously stay within the topic and you’re not helping.
@ISD_Traindriver You see? I try to stay on topic and Ramona is trying to get me in trouble 
First person to stop wins EVE.
(Which is, actually, on-topic.)
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No one will read, but I have to take this out of my heart!
I’m sorry to say but I don’t invite friends to play EVE, because EVE is an addiction that is also a second job! Too much clicking, too much things to learn, too much things to worry about, TOO MANY COMPLICATED PROCESSES, too many alts, many times alts are prefered over people and the game doesn’t let you hire other people’s skills so you have to make more alts.
Examples:
-why the new accounts do not have the 1 milion free skill points? Why make peole use a referral link?
-why the character has only 1 skill qeue instead of 3? Omegas should have 3 training qeues and the queues could be used all for the same character or you could use 1 qeue for each alt, or customize in any way you wish!
-why we don’t have a factory production lines instead of plain slots? Just to make us log more?
-why can’t we set all material and time researches for one entire year? Blueprint after blueprint should be researched
-why in PI the storages and launching pads have such small spaces? Just to make us log more and click more?
-we have only contracts (and I love them) but we have no service contracts so we could offer services
-why the attribute remaps are so long? That’s just insane
-why the jump clone cooldown is so long? Should be 6 hours tops with no skills and 1 hour with level 5
-why expedite transfer cooldown is so long? Should be 5 minutes
-why can’t we multibox the characters from the same account?
-why can’t neutrals take a mercenary contract and join the defenders in wars?
-why can’t the corporate office have a public hangar so you could hire people to run the blueprints for you? Lock the blueprints, give them query access, set the input and output containers and the industry guy will simply cick the manufacture button for you by using the Access List. Nowadays we have this for the corp only.
-why can’t we do Factional Warfare without completely wrecking the standings? Or at least restoring them fast, instead that mind numbing grind we have today.
-why can’t our ships have passwords or access to corporate and alliance, so we could eject from them safely, if anyone wants to snatch a free ship should be running a hacking module successfully many times until the amount of needed hacks is reached.
-why there are no space bus? I want to pay for someone or even to a npc to take my pod 50 jumps away for me, on the next day I want to be there when I log on EVE.
-“just make another alt”, this is because you don’t have service contracts, you can’t hire other people’s skills so you are forced to make more alts or make your skill queue even longer
-etc a lot more things that to me are just sheer stingyness from the people who idealized EVE (lack of generosity and lack of solidarity to the players)
Since I am a true friend I don’t want my friends having such hobby and then getting addicted to EVE and then having to go through all those things and more. All those excessive clicking, excessing loggin just to check a few things and so on.
So EVE is this game which it is advertised that is about playing with people, but everything is built to be a game that demands you to create more and more alts. There’s too much clicking, which takes your time so you wont be playing with other people, cooldowns are too long so you want more alts and any possible way to deal with cooldowns.
I’m not trolling, this is truly what is in my heart.
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Ooops we are a bit off topic again but I guess it depends on your personal definition of lost time.
In my experience here’s what actually happens…
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Boss meets client. Client wants some amazing new functionality…and they demand it within 4 weeks.
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Boss agrees the 4 weeks…’ No problem, my amazing team can get it done !’
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Boss then goes and asks team ’ How long will this super-dooper new stuff take to code ?’
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Team replies…’ Oh, that’s at least a year’s work to do properly’ ( or more commonly with some variant of ’ How long is a piece of string ?’ )
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Boss retorts with’ But I’ve already told the client we’ll have it done by next month !’
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Team submits to the deadline…knowing full well it can’t all be done in a month.
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Client gets delivered crap code…which keeps hundreds of legacy coders in work for trillions of years, fixing issues at first, and then when there are no more issues they can just pretend to fix issues for another trillion years as the Boss has moved on to the next wizzo development and is no longer keeping an eye on that system.
All interesting questions. Thank you.
Some of those questions are obvious. CCP needs people to log in everyday and they’d like them to stay logged in for as long as possible.
Some of the other questions leave me perplexed.
Why would CCP create mechanics that aren’t conductive to collaboration is beyond me.
I don’t so much mind the clicking but all the single-click items become double-click when the game is choppy and the UI becomes non-responsive or it takes 4 to 5 seconds to take effect. After two or three hours of that I’m ready to call it a day.
That’s what happens when players are seen as cashcows. CCP isn’t the only game company guitly of that and that’s why online MMO’s are losing players.
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It’s okay if the ship takes a few seconds to turn after double-clicking. That double-click is intentional.
I’m talking about the items in the UI that are supposed to be clicked once but all too often need another click, turning them into double-click items while they were intended to be clicked once.
And the Docking action takes too long. You just sit there in front of the structure for 5 to 10 seconds before the lady wakes up and says “Docking granted”.
Same thing for the gates. Click… click… click… “sessions in progress”. Well it’s about time!
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Thaks for your reply.
The whole point about clicking is that instead of engaging in other activities you have to be clicking doing many small tasks that will pile up along the month and become hours of clicking. So EVE becomes a second job starting by the excessive clicking.
There is no passive ISK in EVE if trading, science, industry and planetary interaction are so clicky!
Example:
-this alt here who I speak from is a trade alt, who trades anything, in almost anyday I have to update 200 to 260 market orders, it takes 44 minutes!!! Because too many clicking, EVE’s windows and process are very burocratic
I have disabled the wallet notifications (because I can receive a few thousands of notifications a day) and I also disabled the Market refresh data. This makes trading way faster, still it will take 44 minutes to trade correctly
- Trading is a complete pain in EVE, I have no window telling me which orders people put a buy order on top of mine or a sell order under mine.
But my fellow traders will be updating their orders cutting off my orders in a few seconds. How? By using external applications, so now I have two choices:
- develop my own application, as any good tryhard would, hogging even more time of my life
- use someone else’s application and revealing where I make ISK to strangers
There is no fast way within game to know where people are cutting me in the market and no fast way to update hundreds of orders.
44 minutes because I am fast!
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You just turned me off of being a trader. Congratulations.
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A lot of good questions here, but Ursula already answered half of them by pointing out that as a niche game with a limited audience, CCP set things up so that alts are needed, extra logins are needed, extra time is needed, etc. - in order to pump up the number of players online.
In a sandbox, more players = more content.
One other aspect is that CCP wanted a lot “predatory” PvP to happen, but the primary way they conceived of making that happen was to have the “bread and butter” activities of EVE take a long, boring time sitting in space. That way, people will lose attention, alt-tab, get tired etc., and that makes them easy targets for so-called “PvP”.
The third answer is that CCP has literally no clue how to design a game. They keep saying “EVE is all about the social!” and then also pumping the game full of “features” that scream “trust no one - everyone is out to exploit you!” and then also adding on layers of “drive new players away as fast as possible”.
Social grouping can certainly occur but it’s got to fight an uphill battle to do so.
CCP got lucky when their original developers hit on a formula which is addictive to a small segment of gamers - “taking constant risk of real loss, and causing ‘real’ damage/loss to others”.
These factors apply to similar groups as gamblers and other habitual risk takers. And CCP came up with a clunky, awkward, non-intuitive (but pretty!) way of giving it to them. As well as a few other personality types, like empire builders, puzzle solvers etc.
The problem is that over a decade ago, there weren’t so many places all those sub-populations could go to scratch their particular itch. Now there are a lot of them. And many of them are much better implemented and more accessible than EVE.
Why drive 4 hours to get to the turtle-racing track when there’s a casino down the street?
I understand your feeling that introducing your friends to EVE won’t be doing them any favors. And apparently, most of the 9 million players who’ve tried EVE and then walked away… agree.
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And it’s really sad too because EVE has so much potential. With the right decisions taken at the top it could become the greatest MMO ever to be online but now EVE is co-owned by a company whose sole purpose is to make money. The players’ enjoyment is forgotten in favor of profits.
Except money is like water in the palm of your hand. Close your fist and it will flow out and away.
This already happens, out of game and in game…it is called meta-gaming in EvE, player created chats only select few can access, discords, voice comms, etc out of game…
How the hell do you think spying occurs here? Telepathy?
I am in a group called “Guiding Hand Princess Club”.
I am aware of all that…which is precisely why I suggested making it more an actual deliberate in-game part of the game, with actual group structures, rather than ‘hey…wanna join my secret underground chat group ?’
Eve also has a well known propensity for losing whatever chat groups one was in.
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Feels like the game is held together with duct tape and chicken wire.
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I guess CCP lost balance.
Sure it might be that the 20/80 rule counts.
20% pay 80% of the game and
80% pay just 20% of the game.
But if the 20% (that get pampered by ccp) overwelm the other 80% of the player that hard, that they start to leave EVE, will in the end aswell the 20% stop to pump money into the game.
Maybe that was the reason why CCP was going to raise the price for Omega.
The Air-Program wont help to bring in new players. Because the game simply starts after the Air Program. You need to keep the new player, and here CCP failed hard. The slogan “Eve is just for the elite” and “just the hardest can play eve” is no longer valid. It was on the community to teach new players how to play. CCP just waisted their time to fix the real issues to make that possible-
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Misspelled Hilmar.