See, you would would rather argue with me and make excuses for why you won’t participate rather than do something about the things you care enough about to post about.
I don’t know why you people (yes said you peoples lol) can’t see how you are your own worst Enemy.
Becuase I value RL more than the game? I wrote I had no time and after heard the podcast that time would be wasted anyway. I don’t have enough resources to do roundtables.
I always wanted content to be more random just like AP are, guess what CCP finally get it.
Because Group PVE is more annoying than anything else. You have to rely on other people and their woes and schedules to do anything at all. This works in Incursions because Incursions are a lengthy process, which means you can make money in one place for a prolonged period of time with your guys, and rewarding enough to band together and be worth your time. As for Incursions in Null sec: You earn more ISK in anomalies per hour than in incursions because you can do anomalies alone, whereas Incursions require a minimum fleet to be ready and rolling all the time. That’s not happening at all anywhere and most efforts are just aimed at removing it to reestablish logistics capabilities and more lucrative anomaly ratting than this crap.
It does not work in FOBs because they are not rewarding at all, they cost a lot of time to complete and find. And RW is just a joke. Null sec shipyards are also nothing but a joke because not only are they a pain to find (which is necessary to prevent too much farming anyway) but you must (not can or want to, you must) run them in 4 titans because else you just lose too much for them to be worth it.
L5 missions were also intended to be group content but if you run them with 5 people as they were intended to be run, you earn less ISK and LP per char than if you ran L4 missions, and it does not take less time than running them with fewer chars or a carrier.
All these things have been known for years. If you keep having to ask why it does not work, I question your expertise in the matter. Group content is annoying, not worth your time and makes PVE more frustrating rather than an enjoyable pastime. This has been known for years as well.
CCP knows that as well. But instead of creating more PVE content that people want to do and that is actually enjoyable or at least profitable, they keep trying useless experiments one after another. We do not need group content, we need more missions. But CCP is, by their own admission, not competent enough and not willing to create more missions because “the current missions work and we are afraid of breaking the cashcow with new missions” (paraphrased CCP Guard). And this just goes to show that CCP doesn’t even know their own project any more because new missions like burners (which I hate but at least I do not need to run them if I do not want to, which brings me back to the enjoyable and profitable parts from above) or Dread Pirate Scarlet were new missions that people like and use a lot.
That is something CCP should build on. They can keep doing their stupid experiments (and I absolutely hope that no one will get their Abyss losses from the last disconnect day reimbursed), but CCP should also introduce PVE that people actually want to use and do use. It is easy, very easy. People even floated many ideas on new mission patterns and kinds of missions to CCP so that they don’T even need to think for themselves what do create. They just need to turn ideas into actual code. But what do we get? An event that is called a race while it in fact is a game of paddle-ball. And that although it would have been so easy to setup a race to variable landmarks in the cluster instead …
No, it just always comes down to CCP’s incompetence (I am not any longer blaming it on the developers. The Management is just as much ore even more to blame for this because of their stupid deadlines and requirements.) and CSM’s incompetence for positive change.
So, although all these things are known for years to both the CSM and CCP, and there have been more high sec candidate in the past with the very passionate Mike Azariah on the CSM, nothing good has come forth from it. Why should one vote for such a representative body if it cannot drive CCP to do things that actually make things better? In my opinion, it is way more effective to point out the crap CCP produces and announces on the forums and tell them how to do it better in the announcement threads than via the CSM…
But even that doesn’t seem to bother CCP any longer because all the feedback on the agency window from the test period and the CSM comments went unheard, and now we are stuck with garbage while this agency window concept has so much potential one-stop-hub for all PVE related things. But you know, a vote for CSM helps. 
Great post! I participated in the PvE roundtable and the established bias against suggestions from those us who primarily work and run in HS is staggering. While CCP and CSM claim they are receiving input from the HS bloc, not one HS person I have been in communication with recently thought that CCP was on the right track. Both CCP and the CSM participate in an echo chamber of belonging and sharing the same alliances,chat channels, and EVE meets which merely reinforce their vision of what their needs and visions are for EVE. Any attempt to reach out is minimal and tends to deal with asking the HS alts of nullsecers on what they would like to see. Kind of like relying on one news channel for all your information; everything you and your group do is right and everybody who disagrees is wrong.
I don’t care what sec of EVE is home for you. Most of us from HS who are upset aren’t part of any “grrr Gewns” group, rather we are upset that neither the CSM or CCP seem to be able to comprehend, let alone acknowledge, our concerns. We don’t want a safe space HS, we aren’t asking for a secure instancing of missions, we aren’t asking for CCP for more group activities; what we would like is more and varied outreach to the HS community. Quit pointing to the wackier outlier views of HS people as the standard to judge all the ideas coming out of HS.With Jin’taan announcing he is going to reduce his outreach meetings, the HS community is faced with a future where CCP is being advised by a group that has little to do or want with us. Combining a CSM dominated by a group who had one past motto of “we aren’t trying to wreck the game, we are trying to wreck YOUR game” with the obvious tone deaf CCP devs in regards to HS doesn’t fill many of us with hope. We merely ask that a good faith and real effort is made to understand our group, rather than be met with derision, scorn, and be told to “shut up and eat what we serve you.” That shouldn’t be too much to ask of intelligent fair-minded peope, is it?
Like, what does it mean?
Yes, the Goon Workers Democratic Socialist Imperialistic Party scored quite a voting bloc.
We would like that CCP (and the CSM) contact those people who actively use HS as their prime (main) source of income/activity on their main toon directly. Don’t rely on talking within your fleet channels for information, don’t rely on the CSM for an accurate report on what HS is looking for, don’t consider Reddit to be an inside look at what HS wants, don’t consider talking to alts of null secs as the definitive answers…etc. Not once have I heard a HS ask CCP for more group activity, yet we get it. The devs say in the forums that we don’t need new missions because people still do them so everything is fine…and this is just one illustration of the lack of understanding by both the devs and the CSM. They throw some version of an update that contains little, if any, of what many HS(and others) are looking for in new content and wonder why its DOA. Quit focusing and blaming those people who have ideas that truly fall out of the idea of EVE (make HS gank free!!) and focus on those ideas that fit into what a large portion of the population are looking for and what doesn’t break the concept of EVE. We understand that CCP’s resources are finite, we understand that all areas need to be worked on and improved, we aren’t asking them to spend a huge or major portion on HS, we are just asking them to spend their efforts on using the allotted HS dev resources on items that the HS community are looking for.
Ask the right people, get the correct information. ATM, the people in power are asking the wrong people for HS information. Perhaps a focus group of people within the HS community whose main toon is based there could be a choice. Whatever CCP chooses, the current method of gathering HS information AND INTERPRETING it is not working; the failure of Resource Wars proves that. Time to try something else.
I didn’t ask those question, Jinn did. Read my post again. I’m doing pve for 5+ years. Group pve never crossed my mind in that period.
we don’t need another mission without randomness like abyssal pockets because once done, it would become stale, I agree with them in that point. IF AP mechanics were introduced to missions (like generated backgrounds and spawns), then we are talking. Loot is already there.
it’ll never happen, there are no leaders in hs, solo players only, there will be as much opinions how to change hs pve as many players will have the voice to speak. For example some wants more missions added to the pool which is dead end. Solves nothing, and there is no arguments in the world to persuade it is not.
Wow, A bunch of useless people that really only represent the largest group in eve. Congrats.
I can’t remember if you took part in the PvE roundtable or not, but my suggestions included things like randomness in both missions and exploration sites. I proposed having a mission/exploration site generator that would create a wide variation of opponets,challenges, and rewards. As I have suggested in many previous forum posts, the introduction of some variation ( no matter how small) would help alleviate the boring repetition now occuring and help prevent mission specific fits that overpower missions(please see earlier posts).
I was told that I was asking for instanced sites (i.e., protected solo), but I wasn’t.
I was told that CCP doesn’t have the resources or skills to make said generator ( despite other games and programmers having that ability/skill)
I was told that new missions IN ANY FORM wouldn’t help stem the flow of player loss.
I was told that group activities was the solution, despite the failure of new activities like Resource Wars and FOBs.
I was told that the CSM didn’t think that HS needed much work to improve.
Asking HS players whose main( and perhaps only) character is based in HS what their opinions are just make sense. The dynamics and social interaction are completely different from Null sec. Who cares if they are solo or not? Knowledable and experienced players come in all styles, something the CSM and CCP seem to forget. The most recent CSM election brings into power a group with an even more lack of interest in HS play or retention. I don’t question their expertise or knowledge of EVE gameplay, just their commitment to serve and represent ALL EVE players. Well, at least one (Jin’taan) has made some attempt to reach out in the past and at least one other has pledged to serve ALL players. We’ll have to see what happens and see if we can improve CCP’s course.
What was explained to you was that your idea would simply lead to cookie cutter omnitank fits that are even less interesting and less diverse than what exists now.
Missions (and anomalies) aren’t boring, rather they are done by boring people who don’t see the opportunity for experimenting they provide EVERY pve idea that people have revolves around making them more random and varied and this will automatically mean more fun.
CCP thinks this way too. That’s why we have Abyssal Deadspace with all this variation (including a chance of “YOU LOSE” spawns)and why lots of people are already tired of them or abandoning them. Variation and randomness are those kinds of things that people think they want but that no one actually want.
I found that last roundtable to be like that, a lot of utopian thinking that really ignored the reality of PVE players preferences. THAT is why “group content” keep coming up. PVE players sometimes don’t want to admit that we are basically loners…
I’ve noticed that CCP Falcon has moved this post to some forgotten corner of the forums, which is fine, moving posts around is an important part of social networking. Or so I’m told. Anyhow it wouldn’t be done without huge benefits to CCP. Would it?
Overall I think CSM involvement is a fantastic idea. Even if the why, isn’t exactly obvious. I don’t really care who won, but I do like the overall idea.
Mostly what upset me about the CSM election was that the one guy offering 50 million for a rank 1 vote didn’t even reply to me when I responded to his spam mail.
But that’s just me and my hangup about bad manners.
I’ll let you be the judge of who it was.
I see that you keep saying that HS players are loners,boring, unable to understand game design, not able to be creative within the present game design,and don’t know what they want to happen in EVE, let alone know what they actually need in EVE. Sure you’re not with either CCP or the CSM? 
I’m willing to hear your explanation on what should be done for HS player retention, although I seem to remember not being too keen on your suggestions; perhaps they have changed? Please not another form of forced group activity.
I couldn’t but I heard podcast afterwards. It’s funny that CSM member told you that all this can’t be done while 2 months later we have abyssal space introduced.
you start to get boring, with all that mantra “people actually don’t know what they want”, the only person that know is Jenn…
Don’t lie abyssal space is not being abaddoned because people get tired of it but because rewards are not good enough. Basic concept is great, random fights in random scenery. We’ve been told by CCP and CSM that randomness can’t [edit] be introduced into cluster because of “reason”. Abyssal space proves it can be done and heavon don’t fall on our heads.
Even @Steve_Ronuken does not understand the Agency UI. The agency shows a random selection of agents near you for the 7 first slots if you are lucky and then a random selection of agents in low sec (and that’s also just a snap shot experience based on L4 locator agent search where I know that the Agency omits some agents near me that I know exist). Just goes to show how uninfluential the CSM is on CCP and how incompetent CCP is in terms of programming.
I’m trying to get as much information from folks in high sec as I can on their issues.
If you’ve got a list of things you care about, post it.
It looks that this year we’ll have one more CSM’ Counselor posting actively on these forums …
@Steve_Ronuken
@Jin_taan
@Brisc_Rubal
I would love to see all other members show that they are more than a simple choice of their block . Maybe then some of us (HS residents) would give then some recognition as representatives.
Honestly, I’d love to see some folks with the CSM tag to their name to keep an eye on the “Little Things”-thread. It is full of small ideas and if you guys could just put a Like under those suggestions which you also Like, then you’d already be given us a good idea of who you are and what you like. No comments required, just read through it once (takes a little time), but then only follow it. Your presence in these areas would be much appreciated.
Oh, and for those very smart CSM members, who are going to click Like on all, well, you’d be doing us also a favour … we’d know you’d be faking it. 
But seriously, more presence is most welcome even when it’s just a Like.
Let see crystal ball:
HS players are majority in Eve
Eve managment disrespect and ignore HS player base ( majority )
majority get angry and upset
majority is casual players and leave Eve for another game
noone buying silly skins
Eve lose majority of income
vocal minority find themself in broken and abandond game
vocal minority leave null sec and Eve ( beachead in new game are already secured )
redhair viking as last man standing shut down the servers, lock the door and throw away the key
@Brisc_Rubal It was one of my suggestions, although I talked also about a Jira site where CCP could let us know what was doable, in analysis, rejected…