Quantum Cores - Updates begin 8 September

[Franklin_Knox]

Will npcs be required to have the cores in their citadels, or will they be allowed to spam citadels?

[Arrendis]

@Flanidia

Gosh they could announce they were considering the change and solicit feedback

Have you met CCP and the EVE playerbase? Have you ever heard the phrase ‘nothing is final until it’s released on TQ, and even not then’? That’s exactly what they’ve done. There’s nothing in this announcement that’s set in stone, not even the Sept. 8 date for market seeding.

[Flanidia]

@Arrendis

Have you met CCP and the EVE playerbase? Have you ever heard the phrase ‘nothing is final until it’s released on TQ, and even not then’? That’s exactly what they’ve done. There’s nothing in this announcement that’s set in stone, not even the Sept. 8 date for market seeding.

That’s an interesting theory. Seems like they could have not set dates they weren’t intent on hitting. But if that’s the best you have…they might change their minds…we’re good to end it here.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Flanidia

I’d suggest you look up the word fluctuate. It doesn’t mean to move in only one direction but rather to move up and down. So the price will not fluctuate, it will drop.

In the beginning, sure. And once there’s a new equilbrium price, it will move up and down based on other factors. Again, that’s the free market working.

@Flanidia

First, a good organization takes in information and processes feedback before announcing a major change not after.

I agree.

@Flanidia

Second, small corps are the ones who are going to get bashed. Yes, everyone will be affected by the initial sink but small corps are the ones that are going to be affected by the second order issues, both as industrialists (who sell to the market versus use for their own production) and as those who will not rebuild structures post bashing.

I disagree. I think the people who will be most affected by this will be the largest nullsec blocs. They will be on the hook for trillions of isk worth of cores to keep their existing infrastructure online. They will have to find the logistics routes to and from all their space and move large quantities of these cores, which will be valuable loot for gankers and for war deccers. They are some of the largest consumers of structures and tend to have large quantities of them on hand, all of which will depreciate significantly in value if you and I are correct that the prices will drop. And all of this is happening in the middle of a major war where their players have not been able to generate isk as well as they did before and while this kind of logistics nightmare sits on top of all of the other logistical issues with prosecuting a war with long lines of communication.

A smaller corp should be able to deal with this change in a few days, assuming they have the resources to buy the cores. The larger groups will be dealing with this change for weeks, if not longer.

@Flanidia

I suspect that neither CCP nor the CSM has any idea what it is like to run/play in a small corp. But keep defending the decision if you like. But please don’t pretend it’s actually been thought through.

I’m not defending the decision at all. I’m explaining what’s been explained to me. I am, at best, ambivalent about these changes and I’m still trying to decide if I think they’re good or not.

[Dangief]

@Brisc_Rubal

Killing a structure will always feel useful now, because there’s a guaranteed payday at the end of it.

There is this important concept in grand strategy called deterrence that has somehow been disregarded in the name of the dogma of “you can’t be safe in New Eden.”

Just checked the kb and saw that Tataras and Fortizars are being destroyed every single day.

It was borderline to anchor them before for more modest sized alliances (read: 100 players max form), much less any smaller alliances. And now they just won’t be attempted to be anchored except in exceptional circumstances. Just as how Sotiyos are the exclusive domain of the large sov blocs, anchoring Tataras will be pointless. The expected value of doing so is very negative.

There’s no guaranteed payday at the end of the day for structures that are deterred from being anchored in the first place.

[Dracvlad]

@Roan_Pico

Love how Safezoners all over the place are in rage again.

Pah, I am going to smile when war deckers run out of targets in hisec…

@CCP_Rattati

More destruction of Citadels will mean more demand for industrialists

I know you have a lot of data, but I think that is still one hell of an assumption. Seeing as you are applying nullsec balance to hisec can we have the same rig bonuses?

Every hisec indy player I know has decided to give up on Athanors and Raitaru’s. This is going to get rather amusing, for example we are debating whether to use Astrahus 's or just go NPC. Perhaps giving them better defences and fighters might help?

@CCP_Rattati

Existing structures that are not injected with Quantum Cores do not become hyper vulnerable trash. They lose 3 of the “basic services”, i.e. tethering, ship&module repairs and ship fitting. All Service Module and Reinforcement timer behaviour remains as before.

Glad you clarified that.

Still if it does force people to gang up in hisec more it is a good thing, but I am concerned that a large number of hisec indy players might just give up on it, certainly seems to be what I am seeing.

Also what is all this rubbish about structure spam, I see a lot less structures in hisec, there are many systems now without a single one. And the easy kill brigade went fixed numbers per system and placed in easy to locate places, do they know Eve is supposed to be a hard game? I have to apologise for being sarky here, but that attitude gets on my nerves because CCP have made it easier and easier to blow up stuff again and again.

@Brisc_Rubal

I do agree that it’s likely to result in more conflict - people attacking structures for the payout. That appears to be part of the design goal.

You will find that many people in hisec will give up on structures.

So can we have compression and quick switch clones in NPC stations please.

[Roan_Pico]

The final phase for the rollout of Quantum Cores will see some basic services that all structures offer become disabled until a core is installed. Without a core installed, ship fitting, tethering, and ship/module repair services will be disabled. As soon as the core is installed into the structure, these services will become operational again. This phase is expected to go live in the December update.

Please close this loophole and don’t again leave some option for folks to exploit for carebearing. Just make cores mandatory for anyone from last phase on. They’ll cry, they’ll threaten to unsub and in the end they’ll just adapt like they always do.

[Derath_Ellecon]

@Brisc_Rubal

A smaller corp should be able to deal with this change in a few days, assuming they have the resources to buy the cores. The larger groups will be dealing with this change for weeks, if not longer.

With all due respect, the overriding issue doesn’t seem to be the smaller corps ability to field the one time cost of the core. It is that the larger entities will have a greater incentive to simply steamroll their citadels for free cores, either by wars in HS or just showing up elsewhere.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Dangief

There’s no guaranteed payday at the end of the day for structures that are deterred from being anchored in the first place.

This is true. That being said, the biggest value for people attacking structures is going to be hitting the smallest ones.

[Flanidia]

@Brisc_Rubal

A smaller corp should be able to deal with this change in a few days, assuming they have the resources to buy the cores. The larger groups will be dealing with this change for weeks, if not longer.

What percentage of the structures of your large organization do you consider truly vulnerable to attack? If it’s not 100, then you don’t get it.

@Brisc_Rubal

In the beginning, sure. And once there’s a new equilbrium price, it will move up and down based on other factors. Again, that’s the free market working.

But of course that’s not what you said. Fluctuating after reaching a new lower equilibrium is different and doesn’t change the fact that this change is deflationary to the economy which is the opposite of what CCP has said they want.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Derath_Ellecon

With all due respect, the overriding issue doesn’t seem to be the smaller corps ability to field the one time cost of the core. It is that the larger entities will have a greater incentive to simply steamroll their citadels for free cores, either by wars in HS or just showing up elsewhere.

As far as I can tell, that’s part of the design goal.

[Arrendis]

See, this is why the ‘have you met the EVE playerbase’ comes in: if CCP doesn’t give clear dates for their planned implementation, they get tarred and feathered for being unclear, for not giving enough information, and for dangling ‘Shield Slaves’ out there again. And yes, they’ve demonstrated in the past that when the hue and cry is big enough, or things they haven’t considered get pointed out, they can change their plans. Look at the original form the cyno changes were going to take. Those plans provoked a huge outcry, and Rise had revisions worked out and posted in under 3d.

This is the process. This has always been the process. It will likely always be the process. Their initial announcements basically have all the weight of a child’s balloon until they actually happen.

[Flanidia]

@Derath_Ellecon

With all due respect, the overriding issue doesn’t seem to be the smaller corps ability to field the one time cost of the core. It is that the larger entities will have a greater incentive to simply steamroll their citadels for free cores, either by wars in HS or just showing up elsewhere.

Someone gets it.

[Dracvlad]

As I have been war decked and war dec people I think you are the one who has no clue. If you want to just throw stupid comments at me get ready for a block.

---

So let me clarify why most people war dec others in hisec and I am talking about hisec entities, not the farming of nullsec players in pipes and on hubs. First, because they can, but mainly because they want to force them to pay them protection money more than anything else. The majority of war decs we have defended ourselves and our allies against have been people trying to force indy players to give them billions of ISK or else.

[Roan_Pico]

@Dracvlad

You will find that many people in hisec will give up on structures.

So can we have compression and quick switch clones in NPC stations please.

Just grow up and finally leave noob space. Advanced toys should be for adults only.

[Flanidia]

@Brisc_Rubal

As far as I can tell, that’s part of the design goal.

And how does that make large blocks equally or more affected by this change again?

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Flanidia

What percentage of the structures of your large organization do you consider truly vulnerable to attack? If it’s not 100, then you don’t get it.

I just watched every structure my alliance owned in Fountain get destroyed in a month. Nothing is 100% safe.

@Flanidia

But of course that’s not what you said. Fluctuating after reaching a new lower equilibrium is different and doesn’t change the fact that this change is deflationary to the economy which is the opposite of what CCP has said they want.

LOL, you keep reading more into what I wrote than what I wrote. I literally said: “The price of structures will still fluctuate.” That’s all I said.

[Murazor_StarHammer]

You’re clearly on the basking side of this deal, so i can understand how this benefits you. Me, being on the Indy side of this, it’s a major concern and a step in the wrong direction. Since Mega blocs and PvPer’s have been getting all of the advantages in the game, I’ve ran out of patience with CPP. And don’t worry, after all the BS since the abyss started, unsubbing both of my accounts is looking like the right thing to do, maybe not just yet, but it is the first time i considered it since 2013

[Arrendis]

‘Blocs’. There’s no ‘k’ on the word when it’s referring to political coalitions. It’s a pet peeve, I know, but it’s French, and they spell things weird.

[Brisc_Rubal]

@Flanidia

And how does that make large blocks equally or more affected by this change again?

For all of the reasons I already explained. The biggest groups are going to be shelling out trillions of isk to power things they already bought and paid for. All of that isk won’t be going to cover fuel and infrastructure costs or SRP. And it’s happening in the middle of the biggest war the game has seen in years.

I know that the tendency is for everybody to view game changes through the lens of “this is going to impact me more than anybody else” but this change really is significant to every sized group, large or small, and the fact that it scales means the big groups will feel the pain as much as the little ones do.