As in you don’t believe they need to be more active and you are looking for a reason for the change?
If that’s the case, “so CCP has written, so it shall be done”
They have been saying they wanted it to be more active for over a decade. my breath will not be held.
Not holding mine either, but the new guard (CCP Ratatti) is a bit more active when it comes to changing gameplay.
That is certainly one way of putting it… 
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I’m not really saying that other people need to be active while mining. I just hate it intensely because its inherently inactive. I tried to make it more active by doing it with six ships at the same time and it was still an utterly pointless thing to be doing in a video game (to me). What I am doing is suggesting a way out that doesn’t wreck things so that the people who look at what other people do for fun and get CCP to change it have less of a chance to get their way.
There are people that get angry at others for mining (or having fun in whatever things they find enjoyable in Eve) and that its somehow the miners fault that they are angry in the first place… or something. The way I see it is if someone can endure that kind of tedium who am I to give them crap about it? If they are actually enjoying it? GOOD! The reason I suggest things like this is that the people bitching about miners doing something other than staying utterly riveted to eve at all times need to mind their own business and leave CCP out of it. All they do is get things nerfed until they aren’t fun or useful for anyone any more.
Do I think stuff needs to get balanced? Sure, but never-ending nerfs isn’t the way to do it.
And that’s what these people are doing. It boils down to them saying “CCP! Those people are doing something other than what I’m doing and they seem to like it, MAKE THEM STOP!”.
And it works. its made countless people angry and upset over the last two years or so and there’s no sign of it stopping as near as I can see.
So, instead of letting a small group of people demand that CCP wreck things for other people, I try to come up with ways that would at least add some fun to what seems like an inevitable change.
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This is also the exact reason so many people. Particularly the older player base enjoy it. (I mean age rather than play time)
It’s an extremely laid back and highly social activity. Particularly in hs it’s about the only reason to mine considering how little you make.
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And that is why I dislike the idea of messing with it much, just because its not something I do doesn’t give me the right to advocate for nerfing it to death (which in my limited experience is exactly how CCP does stuff, they seem to take things that were fun for people and make them into something that isn’t worthwhile).
Just using the Orca as an example, why nerf it? The amount of time it takes to be able to fly one, and the price of them even before fitting makes them hard to justify for someone like me, but to know there’s likely something coming that severely damages them make them a nonissue, I wont bother and I don’t even want one for mining. Just the threat of a nerf is preventing me from doing things and that effects the economy, there is at minimum one Orca and all of its fittings that will never be sold, and that’s just me. I think there are other people smart enough to realize that they are about to get thrashed and wont be training for, let alone buying them. I got lucky with player structures, I saw the nerfs coming in advance and though I really wanted to set up an Athanor for example (I even had one and all the stuff to make it function) I didn’t do it and never will. I think that’s messed up, It could have been really useful to a LOT of people.
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Honestly, Mining already took a big enough hit last year, and (I might be biased as I do enjoy doing some casual mining fleets with my corp) now the rebalance is coming but hurting the “main” high-end ships is just a Big mistake, you could potentially implement a barge that uses drones as some people want but why change the Orca and Rorqual, they are a massive investment, a huge target on you and it will only hurt the economy even more. If CCP really wants new players to join and Old players so stay( this is only an assumption but I bet that mining alts make at least a somewhat significant chunk of CCP’s profits and ruining the idea of having the main ship will just hurt those alts) then maybe they should nerf things like incursions, which are supper safe and supper luxurious, which isn’t a problem in itself but it is a massive problem when you look at the bigger picture because then everyone will be running incursions if it is the only profitable thing, now when a new player comes everyone tells him to do incursions, and because of the nerf to mining ships and ores the ships to run incursions just increase and increase. Now CCP has THREE main problems, veterans not having fun anymore with mining, a huge investment for new players to make ist, and a BROKEN BALANCE OF ISK INCOMES. I am not saying mining has to be the most profitable thing in eve, I do run incursions occasionally, and I will admit that it is a nice feeling to be in a fleet with other people shooting stuff, but the benefit of mining is that i can be at my desk, play eve maybe finishes my homework or talk to friends who are also in the fleet about life, mining should not be an AFK thing but if you o it right, you can easily leave basically any type of content for 20 seconds each minute and it won’t be bad. But the only reason that mining is being nerfed is that people think that being in a 2 bil ship in high sec and doing “nothing” is bad, but because those people don’t enjoy that doesn’t mean that CCP has to nerf it if highsec miners say that the catalyst is broken and it gets nerfed then they are going to be crying, CCP needs to look at the total isk created by something over the player base and then balance it of that.
When it comes to mining it is already trash enough, so maybe CCP should look at other ways to balance the industry…
Fly Safe Thorin
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Someone mentioned something like devs saying “if we think rearranging ship bonuses is what is going to happen”, we are thinking too small. So what this might mean…
I believe rearranging ship bonuses and traits etc are included in those changes, but what could we do more?
What mining is? Target a rock, click, wait. Correct? PVP requires player skill, exploration requires player skill, mining requires afk ability… hmmm… I smell something.
Maybe there is something that could be done in those three phases I mentioned, especially the latter two to make things more interesting for old and new (especially the new to bring more fresh meat)? I’ve done more mining in Elite and Star Citizen. Mining in those games is active and a lot more fun than the passive wait until you die-in-boredom-mining in Eve. Sure you can read a book or watch TV or play other games while mining. But what’s the point in that? Why not create a minigame out of mining? Like exploration. Target a rock, open mining window, target different sections of the rock - see different readings about the rock etc based on your character skills etc - get a result based on where you pew pew the rock. Good bye afk mining with 6 accounts while watching tv. Sure killing this activity would hurt many, but in the long run it would help the game. Most likely extraction rates need balancing because less accounts are digging dirt though.
Or what do you think?
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I like the idea of that, but implementing such a thing to the “standard ores” wouldn’t help, you could maybe implement such a thing into a new type of resource or into a ship, where then the rock can be analyzed and then mined where the rock is best, but implementing such a change wouldn’t really help eve if you want a minigame while mining do the project discovery but mining in null still isn’t super relaxing, the main issue with “AFK” mining can be found in Highsec and nowhere else, I do like the idea of what you mentioned but that would only work in Null where the rocks are already big enough and this is sort of mixing the different variations of ore into one big one and then analyzing it
The big mistake was to assume the Orca is the high-end mining ship to begin with, the exhummers are.
And what CCP hinted suggest the Orca will be even better at its intended role.
You can rest assured that people that don’t join eve will be unaffected by the upcoming changes.
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Well it was to me as I really like using drones
I do believe I might use somewhat more earthy, colorful adjectives.
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There’s no assuming, in 2016 CCP announced that Orca’s and drones were a pillar of mining. The Orca is a mining ship and a darn fine one.
Would you produce something factual, some evidence of what the Orca has done to deserve all the negative attention. Is it merely thematic and your pride? Did an Orca run over your dog? I 've asked you and others that seem to agree with you to produce the definitive Orca evidence that led to the ruination of Eve, but no one has yet met the challenge - because you got nothing.
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here comes Hans to save the day. 
Back in the days the Osprey was a mining ship, a damn fine one. Well, you can still strap a mining laser and some mining drones in it but, to put it mildly, is not quite the same.
Did the Osprey deserved that “negative attention”? CCP thought it needed all the adjustment over the year, the Osprey is a fine ship in a new way and the players adapted.
Now its 2021 (not 2016 BTW) and CCP think that mining ships, the Orca included, need some adjustments again. Calm down miner and adapt.
Cut the drama Hans. Saying a ship is used a bit too much in the role of a different ship is not saying the game is doomed.
You have been told, time and again, why we expect Orca’s mining yeld to be toned down. Not liking the answer is not an excuse to pretend you didn’t understood.
And FFS, if you don’t like the changes go argue with the devs that are doing it and leave me alone. Or ragequit if that is more your style, just don’t forget to contract me your Orca first.
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Do not kid yourself that you represent a majority opinion, throwing around the royal first person plural. You represent your opinion, and that of a small but vocal minority, who suffer from blind arrogance and would rather believe your own delusional narrative than actually listen to people who fly and mine with Orcas, and have shot down your arguments time and time again. Hans makes a respected and valued contribution to these fora, you do not.
If @CCP_Rattati is stupid enough to mess with Orcas, and mining ships in general, then sadly he will. And it is his destructive “improvements” that WILL doom the game.
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Either CCP do not believe that this happens to any great degree, in which case why waste resource on changing it? Or they do believe that it happens to a significant degree, and that it is somehow an actual problem, in which case… oh, wait, lose the money from six Omega accounts per multi-boxed mining player? That will go down well in the financial report.
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(Pan_Dora1 being the her)
Buddy like 90% of the industry side does not like these changes, I a fine if they nerf the Orca, however if you pair a Orca and a barge it should still be better than then just multiboxing barges
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I love how both sides insist they represent the majority and admonish the other side for saying so as well.
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