Resource Redistribution Update

[NoaIV_lambertsen]

i have played enuff games that ya devs trying to force players to do stuff they ether have no want to do or bores the hell out of them will cause them to just plain move to other games ccp is about to learn this the second time since first time was blackout and ya that ended oh so well that ccp had to end it

[Brun_Warbear]

@Ember_Fireheart

There is tons of people already mining in low sec just because you can’t see it doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.

Your definition of tons of people and mine are very different. It’s a drop in the ocean.

@Ember_Fireheart

And this will reflect in low sec mineral prices, the more dangerous it is and the less people do it the more valuable it is and the more incising it becomes. CCP has balanced it in a way that is self balancing. (smart design)

There are tons of people brave enough to try.

No it won’t balance because minerals are required according to a distribution of goods produced. A couple of mid-range minerals being exceptionally expensive is not balance. This is not smart design, it’s sledgehammer design; something CCP have a long history of failing with.

CCP believe that if they make the lowsec carrot big enough then lowsec will fill up with all these awesome small scale skirmishes.

It won’t. The carrot cannot be big enough to make lowsec reliably profitable in most cases. In particular not for an economic activity that is expensive to defend.

Lots of people may be “brave enough” to try. That is irrelevant. Bravery doesn’t make good business sense. It doesn’t cover your costs, and this is all about cost.

[loki_gallach]

You are right and it will get worse.

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Brun_Warbear

The carrot cannot be big enough to make lowsec reliably profitable in most cases.

Nonsense. If prices for minerals found in lowsec go up sufficiently that mining in lowsec pays 10 billion ISK per hour then lowsec will be full of miners.

[Elwha_Lynx]

@Merin_Ryskin

Nonsense. If prices for minerals found in lowsec go up sufficiently that mining in lowsec pays 10 billion ISK per hour then lowsec will be full of miners.

I agree. But I also think it won’t be HS groups that have moved to LS…it will be expansion of Null, already equipped with robust response fleets, and needing to carve out safe shipping bridge paths into LS.

[Obed_Marshh]

@Pierre_de_Bricassart

Probably you’ve forgotten a long time ago that also Venture mining can be fun

The other weekend I tried to hunt down some jaspet before I learned you have to be in the proper lower, not just losec.
Checked the heat map, found a nearby y system that looked survivable, and flew there in a venture(t1/civilian fit). Made it to 1 belt, then someone showed up and tried to lock me. Instead of mining, I spent 10 minutes leading this guy all over the system chasing me. Want what id planned on doing, but I had a good laugh and it was nice to see that I can still get out alive if I’m paying attention. I think I actually yelled “come at me, bro” at my monitor.

[Nevyn_Auscent]

Does it matter who it is? There will still be more life in Lowsec.

[ISD_Bahamut]

Remove a number of posts for the following reason

6. Please use the correct language when posting.

The default language for posting on the EVE Online forums is English. Please use English when posting as a courtesy to other forum users, unless the forum channel is specifically created for discussion in another language as part of our localized language specific sub-forums.

[Litsea_Reticulata]

@Arrendis

You know you can do all that with Pyfa, right? So you can actually get solid ‘what’s the max possible yield on this ship?’ numbers for every mining platform in the game, Gnosis included.

While this is true, how is the variable of under-size rocks taken into account? When I did proc vs retriever vs covetor, back when it was a 1 v 2 v 3 strip miner set up, the covetor yield was far greater than the procurer yield on paper.

@Arrendis

Which is why I can tell you, without any difficulty at all, that no, your mining Gnosis, with it’s theoretical max yield of 21.6m3/s of yield, using 5 augmented mining drones and 5 civilian miners, is neither equivalent, nor exceeds, the 58.2m3/s a max-yield Hulk can produce with Orca boosts. Without boosts, the Hulk’s 37.2m3/s is still superior to the Gnosis.

Unless the gnosis with civilian miners is facing a belt that is full of undersize rocks, in which case if a rock pops, its less than 10 seconds to harvest the next one, as opposed to the longer time of a hulk. Of course it would be better to just move to an area with better rocks, though when I was still doing mining, I found a whole system of belts where someone had mined the rocks down to their last full strip miner cycle.

@Merin_Ryskin

You buy a subscription for $15 and stop trying to turn EVE into a masochistic grind where you slog through boring content for the sole purpose of earning the privilege to do it again next month?

That would be ideal, though its hard to see that happening for the multitude of industrialists who run 10 accounts at a time because the base activity isn’t efficient unless at scale.

@Arrendis

We’re also not going to worry about drone speed modules or implants, and assume (as pyfa does) 0m travel time needed on the drones:

The frustrating thing here is there is no at 0 yield, as the mining drones always orbit, the orbit being larger depending no the target rock. At 2500m, the yield is as close to max as possible, at 5000m the loss is about 10% to 15%, and at 7500 its getting to 20%. At that point I kinda gave up on the experiment.

@Arrendis

Endurance: 16.9m3/s [ 47.9m3/s ICE, which is what this 1-turret slot wonder’s designed to mine.]

The endurance happened after I quit mining, its interesting to see the yield matches a T2 barge. That looks like a quite attractive proposition, just sad that it doesn’t warp while cloaked. Can it be BLOPs bridged?

@Vixie_Trix

Have a feeling with this nerf, loot reprocessing will become a booming business
Ratting is gonna get out of hand fast.

Possibly, though scrap metal reprocessing is a long skill train. People got burned skill injecting into a rorqual and then finding it nerfed.

[Pure_Platinum]

I am right there with you bud. lol

[Penance_Toralen]

@Litsea_Reticulata

The endurance happened after I quit mining, its interesting to see the yield matches a T2 barge. That looks like a quite attractive proposition, just sad that it doesn’t warp while cloaked. Can it be BLOPs bridged?

No, Endurance is not a true covert-op. Only the Prospect is. The Endurance yield is less than the Prospect, and both are below the basic Procurer. (before or after Mining Laser Upgrades). The trade-off for some light drone protection, larger Orehold and more mids for a better shield tank. Plus the 3 highs of the Endurance allowing for Cloak, harvester and probe launcher. Indeed the Endurance base yield will match the Venture at 3.9m³/s. (max skills only).

[Arrendis]

@Litsea_Reticulata

While this is true, how is the variable of under-size rocks taken into account?

It’s ultimately irrelevant. All ships have to deal with the same rocks. Being in one hull vs another doesn’t change the chances of getting under-sized rocks. Higher yield/second just means moving through those rocks faster.

@Litsea_Reticulata

When I did proc vs retriever vs covetor, back when it was a 1 v 2 v 3 strip miner set up, the covetor yield was far greater than the procurer yield on paper.

The Covetor’s yield is much higher than the Procurer’s. The Covetor gets fully 145% the Procurer’s yield. So it’s moving from rock to rock faster, and should stay in motion more.

@Litsea_Reticulata

Unless the gnosis with civilian miners is facing a belt that is full of undersize rocks, in which case if a rock pops, its less than 10 seconds to harvest the next one, as opposed to the longer time of a hulk. Of course it would be better to just move to an area with better rocks, though when I was still doing mining, I found a whole system of belts where someone had mined the rocks down to their last full strip miner cycle.

Except there’s no reason the Hulk isn’t moving just as promptly. Fit a scanner. Know how many units you pull in per cycle, and stop the laser early. If you plan to spend a lot of time mining, and plan to make your money in-game through mining, you should know what you need to do to keep on top of your income… and then do it.

As an example at the other end of the scale, Rorquals are locked in place for 5 minutes at a time. They need to get as close to a rock as possible to use Excavators, because they’ve got 3bn ISK out in space just in drones, where it can be killed by 3 bombs.

When you have to move from rock to rock, there’s 2 different strategies: you can warp out to a bookmark/fleetmate/etc, then warp back into the new rock, or you can come out of siege, switch to Mining Drone IIs, and when you get to the right mix of speed and range, you CTRL-SPACE, and immediately siege again, so you decelerate and slide in near the next rock.

Which one do you use? Depends on the distance to the next rock you want, and how well you know how to Rorq-drift. (Heh. Roarke’s Drift. Heh. Don’t worry if you don’t get it.) To maximize your yield… you have to develop the knowledge and the skills you need. You have to know what you’re doing.

@Litsea_Reticulata

The frustrating thing here is there is no at 0 yield, as the mining drones always orbit, the orbit being larger depending no the target rock. At 2500m, the yield is as close to max as possible, at 5000m the loss is about 10% to 15%, and at 7500 its getting to 20%. At that point I kinda gave up on the experiment.

And for anything larger than the Venture, the drones are very much not a significant part of the platform’s yield. It’s all in the lasers.

@Litsea_Reticulata

The endurance happened after I quit mining, its interesting to see the yield matches a T2 barge. That looks like a quite attractive proposition, just sad that it doesn’t warp while cloaked. Can it be BLOPs bridged?

No. It’s not a CovOps. The Endurance’s real power is that it can get into frigate-only wormholes and mine ice at the same speed as a Skiff, with the same size ore hold as a Skiff, and then get the hell out, fast. Destroyers can’t get in, so no bubbles.

Each of the frigate platforms has a different set of tools for running away. The Venture has a built-in point of warp stability. The Prospect can use a Covert Ops Cloak. The Endurance has 4 low slots, so it can set up with 2 warp stabs, a DC II, and a nano to align quick.

@Litsea_Reticulata

People got burned skill injecting into a rorqual and then finding it nerfed.

Anyone who injected up into a Rorq when they originally made it into what it is now (expressly to sell extractors/injectors) most definitely did not get burned. Pulling in 1b ISK/hr or more for 3 years isn’t ‘getting burned’.

[MB_ThePhotographer]

@Arrendis

stop the laser early .

Yeah, some ppl forget about that part. You almost have to sit there with a stopwatch! But since I’m an “active” player, it was no big deal.

Edit; I still hate mining. zzz

[Penance_Toralen]

@Arrendis

The Endurance has 4 low slots, so it can set up with 2 warp stabs, a DC II, and a nano to align quick.

It is actually 3/4/3 for the Endurance.

The Prospect has 3/3/4. Which is why I armor tank when harvesting gas. The issue behind the Prospect is the tight fit with CPU, imo.

Still, BLOP bridge is a significant investment of skills, fuels and hull for a one-way trip.

[Arrendis]

Yep, my bad, I wasl ooking at the wrong tab on my pyfa.

[Lily_Inkura]

@Gaius_Mileghere

minor correction: the porpoise CANNOT warp while cloaked.

Thanks for the clarification .Just a cut & paste from another thread, where I have again made this faux pas …

"So, cloaky warp only refers to warping when also using a covert ops cloak? Whereas the cloaky warp trick, which was what I was referencing, is a “trick” that does not in fact impart any aspect of cloaky warp?

Who knew."

[Merin_Ryskin]

@Penance_Toralen

Still, BLOP bridge is a significant investment of skills, fuels and hull for a one-way trip.

It is a big up-front investment but it’s not like you only get to use it once. That black ops bridge will be available to be used again and again and again, adding value every time you use it. It’s an incredibly useful tool to have available.

[darkestkhan_Eriker]

@Cati_Tasha-Murkon_II

I’m writing with in a new-player’s point of view because these changes are going to hit them more than anybody else.

New players don’t do L4 missions… getting into L3 missions is easy though, 20M/h. All it requires is battlecruiser. BTW L2 missions can pay about 10M/h - cruiser is all you need. As for L1 missions… that is waste of time - you only grind them to get access to higher level missions.

@Arrendis

He’s using an optimized marauder and slaughtering things quickly. He may or may not be sending a salvager in after. His low numbers are achievable with a Drake, Hurricane, Dominix…

HAM Loki… but it is quite blingy… and I do anti-empire missions almost exclusively.

[Pearl_Abyss_Diver]

I like this!

Please consider adding skill injector manufacturing to wormholes as an industry friction decision between building T3 ships or injectors.

Intermediate step in skill injector farm production

[Injector Resource] This high level proposal seeks to retain the ‘use and activate anywhere’ conveniences of skill extractors and injectors while introducing an ability to disrupt skill injector farm production in the ‘mass premium’ logistics pipeline of wormhole industry. Step 1: Skill extractors create a new raw material The skill extractor makes a raw material instead of creating the readily usable skill injector we all know and love. This raw material, B.R.A.I.N.S. (Biological Receptacle A…

[Sylvia_Kildare]

@Obed_Marshh

The other weekend I tried to hunt down some jaspet before I learned you have to be in the proper lower, not just losec.

There WAS Jaspet in HS. Or rather there still is. Until this patch comes in a week or two, that is.

I’m passing some right now.

ZNI-980 Cosmic Anomaly Ore Site Small Jaspet, Kernite and Omber Deposit 100.0% 3.24 AU

RIP HS ore anoms. Cherry-picked though they often were.