Risk vs Reward ninja mining

Some people may have stopped doing it, but if other people take their place it would still suggest there is no issue.

The goal is to find the correct balance between people doing and people not doing it. And more than that, the right people doing it and the wrong people not doing it.

Now assuming ccp intended fracking to be a group activity, then groups doing it and solo players not doing it would be fine! No issue.

But if we reached a point where not even groups were doing it, that would definitely suggest there was an issue. Or if we had a situation where solo players were widely doing it, that may suggest that it’s too easy/worthwhile. Assuming ccp intend for it to be a group activity.

You are off-topic.

No. Just no.
The simple fact that people complain suggest on the other hand that there is an issue, which you don’t want to see because “personal opinion”.

And you are none to claim what the correct balance is. And even so you would have NO DATA to validate such a balance. And what’s more your “right people” is a valuation post-experience and thus as literally zero validity, because your only valuation is what fits your opinion. “I like it so it is okay”. Sorry that’s complete BS.

Again, you are shifting the issue from “is the ninja harvesting balanced” to “is there too many moons harvested” which not only you have no right to judge , but also have no argument for . And of course is completely off-topic.

This thread is excellent and I hope we all become friends by the end of it.


There is no reason for the opposite !

I respectfully disagree. The OP said the game mechanics need to be changed. I’m arguing they don’t, and my comment supports my argument.


Pretty bang on actually. The issue is knowing what is the correct amount of building to be happening in hi-sec vs low-sec.

It suggests there may be an issue. But because a player perceives there to be an issue doesn’t mean there is one. It doesn’t mean everyone else agrees.

Look at this:

He perceives an issue and may complain about it. But it doesn’t necessarily mean there is one. It doesn’t mean we all agree.

And neither are you.

I have the same right to judge it as you do to judge that ninja-mining is unbalanced. Same as anyone does.

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Actually OP said they should be changed because of ninja harvesters in HS.

In no way was there a concern about what people are doing in low sec. I agree that this should not make LS worse than it is, but then your claim that it would impact LS is still to be proven. Especially in the case of people who just don’t want to go to LS.

You believe that people will leave HS and go LS just because they can kill people there ? They rather leave the game. If you think you can improve LS by making HS worse, you are very wrong.

No it’s not.
Again, “correct” is just your opinion, and not related to the topic.

Indeed and as I wrote just after it means that you focusing only on the part “it suggests there is no issue” have a vested interest in ignoring the issue.

And you are free to put that opinion of yours where I think of :slight_smile: That is, in a dedicated topic . So as to not pollute other people by going in an off-topic rampage.

And no, the mechanism of ninja-harvesting IS unbalanced in favor of the ninja harvesters. By any meaningful definition you use.

Correct is defined by ccp. But we can speculate.

I do have a vested interest. But doesn’t the op also have a vested interest?

Ccp will have an idea of what amounts of fracking should be happening and who should be doing it. And we can speculate as to what that may be and summise about the current situation: ‘this seems fine’ or ‘somethings broken’.

Or that’s how i look at it.

It’s not vested. It’s very explicit.

The first sentence is wrong. We don’t know, maybe they do, maybe they don’t. You claim they do without any evidence of it.

So you making off-topic judgements based on personal speculation over something that may as well not exist is… absurd ? Ironic ?

Clearly, your posts look like “as long as Eve is running, there is no problem”. That’s delusional. You are covering your eyes.

When your friends will have less people playing for a moment, and will not be able to bump the ninja harvesters in their orcas, they won’t complain. They will just offline the structure and silently stop. And later when people will come back they will just realize that it’s not worth to set up the moon again. But yeah, there will still be “no issue”. Because you don’t want to see it.

This is a fair point. At the end of the day, CCP will decide what changes to implement (if any). I’ve stated my position, and I’m satisfied with my wording, but if I’m wrong- then I guess I’ll find out in a future patch release.

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You have strange definitions.

They will even if only subconsciously.

When they released ‘industry teams’ they found out that hardly anyone used them and removed the feature. Now that doesn’t mean they had a ballpark number of usage they were expecting/aiming for. But there comes a point where a features use or lack of becomes evidence that there is a problem.

Another example is drones. A little while back ccp looked at how weapons were used by players. They found that drones were very common and missiles were less common. Even though they probably didn’t have an official exact or maybe even not a ball park number for how often these weapons should be used, they reasoned that the under use of one weapon and over use of the other suggested there was an imbalance.

This is correct. As long as enough people play eve, the game is fine.

That doesn’t mean it couldn’t be better. But as long as a certain threshold is met (say income>costs) the game is fine.


8 system messages.
4x my post got hidden.
4x the staff restored them.

Man, it’s as if someone was trying to censor me.
I wonder what type of people would do such a thing!

I have no idea!



Devs took actions before the game died. Therefore your argument is again absurd.

You again claim that there can’t possibly be an issue, because there can’t possibly be an issue. Again you are wrong, as devs took actions to fix issues in the game.

Because fine =/= perfect.

The devs took action in 2013 when player numbers were at their highest point. This doesn’t mean the game wasn’t fine. Just that they intended to improve it.

And not all changes are an answer to something thats not fine. When they release expansions with new content like apocrypha, it doesn’t mean things are not fine. Just that they think things could be better.

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I did not write “is fine”. I wrote

To which you answered that this is correct. It is not, for the reason I gave.

devs literally made fixes for eg the orthrus or the VNI, because they considered something was a problem. Which means, there were problems in the game that needed to be addressed, even though the game was not dead. But even a child knows that.

so you claiming there is no issue is just blinding yourself when you know you are wrong.
AKA a troll.

Ok. It may not mean there is no problem. But it doesn’t mean the game is not fine either.

I bet you one of the metrics used to decide there was a problem was how much they were used.

The same can be applied to athanors and fracking.

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At this point it should be painfully obvious that a certain someone is just here to troll and rile people up, and should not be fed or indulged.

At the end of the day, as CCP Fozzy said, no one actually owns asteroids, so suspect flagging would make no sense.

Corps that own Athanors under the free umbrella of CONCORD risk other people mining their ore. It’s just the cost of business in HiSec. Luckily several mechanics are in place to help them deal with ninjas:

  • WarDecs
  • Ganking
  • Bumping

OFC, these things have been nerfed over the years at the demand of carebears, and unfortunately may not be as effective. However, the corp always has the option of timing pulls for their prime time and not pulling more than they can mine in one sitting.

There’s also the fact that a couple of people mining that ore is not really a big deal. Most corps I’ve found pull way more than they can mine themselves, so the ore isn’t being “stolen”, it’s being thrown away in the despawn trashcan. Ninja miners aren’t “thieves” in this case, but enterprising individuals rescuing valuable resources from waste.

Flagging = I’m right.


No relation between the two parts.

“It is how it is, so .” So NOTHING
You are the one trolling by repeating that non-argument ad nauseam.

“people die of illness therefore it would make no sense to cure them”.
That’s what you whole argument is about.

Isn’t that sweet, A code member went for the easy zero risk gank kills in nulsec, then scurried back to highsec as quick as his little malediction would get him there.

I’m sorry but Code don’t do NulSec