Risk vs Reward ninja mining

Let’s look at some facts and break this down.

If you own a structure you should be able to defend this and so you can. If you pull moon ore from a planet you should be able to mine this ore to make ISK and so you can.

Where do the risk and reward come in play then?
Well, when you pull ore and it pops the asteroids, anyone can come mine there.

People have mentioned this before and it’s true that in no way is owning an Athanor a solo thing. You cannot defend it solo and so should not own it as a solo player. Owning an Athanor allows you to set a time that is perfect for your corp and you can pop it when your full mining fleet is in place and ready.

It then plays into your hand as to when the moon gives you ISK.

I find it rather strange how you have come here and complained about moon mining and ninja mining in high sec when you are in a Non-Player Corp.

Now if you writing this on behalf of the previous corp you just left then I’m shocked that a 50 man Corp cant anchor an Athanor, Set a time where you will all be online and mine it out by yourselves. If you were struggling to do this with 50 people then you really don’t deserve to have a Structure.

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or they will just set their security to green.

Because there is nothing you can do when a fleet of 10 orcas warps on your moon belt less than 5 min after you detonated it.
Let’s say that in that corp there are only a third of players ( so 17 players and 33 alts). Most of the alts are not fit for fight, can’t bump, or just can’t login at the same time the main in on the field.

What is the owner’s corp supposed to do ? Have 10 of the accounts bump the orcas ? If it’s to get half the yield you can as well mine normal ore it will be worth more.

And again what is the risk for the ninja miners ? None.

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No, it’s the subject of your complaint. The topic of your post is that people are taking your moon mining. 100% chance you’re doing this in highsec, where you can’t push them off.

Highsec’s safety works both ways. Don’t mine in highsec if you have a problem with the rules of highsec.

OP 100% has the tools for what he wants. They’re called lowsec, nullsec, and wormhole space (I think you can moon mine in jspace? Not sure.) OP just doesn’t want to expose himself to the same risk/reward as everyone else. He feels entitled to mine what he thinks is his, when his assertion that it was his ore to begin with is flawed.

OP, the ore isn’t yours. If you don’t like highsec mechanics, don’t mine in highsec. Mine elsewhere, and you can absolutely shoot the people that try to take your ore.

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Bump. Gank. Wardec. Outmine.

If you aren’t happy with those solutions, maybe people shouldn’t have asked them all to be nerfed.

If it was that bad then why does anyone still have an athanor?

Moon belts yield bigger and more valuable rocks at the owners timetable. They are worth far more than double a belts ore. Clearly!

If the choice is between no risk or something as punitive as suspect then the answer is none.

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Go put your moon in low sec then you can just kill them.

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suspect is not punitive. Criminal would be

And if you are unhappy with people complaining, maybe you should not post on the forum.

They definitely don’t. The ore in a moon belt is at most 34% more worth than the best ore in roid belt, and 16% more than the ore in an ice belt. And that’s for dazzling spodumain, which most don’t have.
Only spod, sylvite and coesite are worth more than ice belts. But the two last can not be compressed, and they can’t be used in HS so they need to be moved and take a lot of space - so their values is actually much less than that after the hauling cost.
And if you compare the dazzlinbg spod to standard veldspar, it’s only 40% more value per m³.

Your numbers are way off. Most moons are worth less than standard asteroid belt in HS, and almost all of them are worth less than ice belts.
The only interest is as a corp you can have a huge amount of m³ that does not require you to move to mine it - but then other people come and your yield plummets.

I disagree. Sitting in the open in a mining barge whilst suspect for hours is just not going to happen. People just wont do it.

It is punitive.

If i was complaining about their posting…

Your math is incomplete. You are not factoring in the volume of ore, nor the advantage of controlling the time it will spawn.

Like i said, players obviously think it’s worth fracking moons.

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It’s still not punitive.
Just like a KR is not punitive.

The only punitive effect is the criminal flag, the facpo and the fines for illegal goods.

“I am obviously am right even if my argument is wrong”.
Nope.

Please tell me how my math is incomplete. Because I actually AM factoring the volume of ore. And the time it spawns has no relation to the value of the ore, the market does not care.

CVA has some really nice moons in Ebo. Obviously moon mining is so safe and profitable In HiSec that even large Null entities do it.

The losses from ninja miners must be fairly irrelevant. Unless you’re a whiny person.

Your definition of punitive is clearly not the same as the English definition then.

I am obviously right because we clearly have no shortage of frackers. Fracking is obviously worth it to them.

If no one was fracking because ‘ore thieves’ then you might have a point.

The market may price the individual minerals and ore the same, but to the Athanor owners, a belt they can control the spawning of is more valuable than a typical asteroid belt. You can’t tell them it isn’t.

@Nevyn_Auscent tell this fool what mining normal belts is like in your time zone.

Meh HS belt mining is shite in any timezone when compared to fracking, although it gets a little better the further you get from the population centres due to lack of competition for the available resources.

Not that the fool is interested in anything resembling dissent.

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No relation.

You claim it is worth at least twice the value.

I tell you your numbers are completely off. With the real gain of mining a moon belt compared to ice or roid belt

This goes even more so for big groups.

If you can strip a moon belt in minutes, you have little to worry about when it comes to ninja miners. But if you afk mine in a single orca, you might be right that moon mining isn’t much better than belt mining.

It’s not the value of individual pieces of minerals that matter. It’s the value your group can extract and how quickly they can extract it.

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Assuming you’re ‘half’ was correct then fracking is obviously worth twice as much to some people or why do they do it?

And that is exactly taken into account in the value I gave. The yield in isk/m³ is what you want. And I tell you it’s always less than +40% and even less than +0% on most moons.

The capacity to mine a moon belt on trigger is a lie.
a week worth of extraction on a moon is 3M36 m³ , and that’s taking into account the bad ore that nobody wants. Let’s say 1/3 is made of correct moon ore(and that’s generous), then those 1M12 are less than what is contained in TWO asteroid belts.
For one week of preparation, you have less than two roid belt worth of minerals. And the roids are spread so you need to spread your fleet too.

Sorry but no, you don’t trigger it at will.

Just because you don’t understand does not mean your first idea was correct -.-
I tell you your math about moon mining are completely off.

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Not really.

What you want is the best possible wealth increase in a given time period, say the end of the month.

Short bursts of high isk/m3 may not be as good in the long run as long periods of low isk/m3. And in s similar fashion, guaranteed rocks are worth more than rocks that may be gone by the time you log on.

E.g. Doing pi in week long periods does not give the best isk/hour, but those who log in once a week would make more isk at the end of the month doing long periods than daily periods.

This applies to fracking as well. You’ve got one period a month where all your group are on. That one big belt a month is worth more to you than the typical asteroid belts that you can’t mine because of timezones and/or activity issues.

So why do people frack?

I don’t think you get it.

I haven’t done ANY math (except maybe 1/0.5 = 2). I’m simply telling you that fracking is obviously worth it to many people, otherwise why are they doing it?

You said this:

Therefore by extension of your own words, it MUST be double the worth it to SOMEONE otherwise why are they doing it at all?

That’s why your math is incomplete. Because you, by your own admission, have not accounted for things like peoples timezones, controlled belt spawns etc

Like i keep saying, if people didn’t see value in fracking because of ‘ore thieves’ then they wouldn’t be doing it.

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And I did the math and I tell you you are wrong.

Your sole argument is “if at least someone does it then it is betteer”. Which is wrong.

Not at all.

It was YOUR claim that it is worth at least double. I told you how much is is actually worth. You then make up a new argument that has no sense.

The only thing it shows, is that you have no idea of the real value and keep claiming nonsense.

Your argument is that if people do it then it means there is no issue, which is the same as “If they can’t do it then they were not supposed to do it”. You are claiming that “there is no issue because there is no issue”.
Again, this kind of cyclic argument is invalid.

There is an issue. Which means that all your argument is wrong, and what’s more the way you are making arguments is wrong.

1 full Orca at a HS belt: 10 - 15 mil.

1 full Orca with Spod at moon: 35+ mil.

lol

https://evemarketer.com/types/46688/buy 188,8125 isk/m³
https://evemarketer.com/types/1230/buy 200 isk/m³

compressed :
https://evemarketer.com/types/46704/buy requires 1600 m³ of raw so 267,2 isk/m³
https://evemarketer.com/types/28432/buy requires 10 m³ of raw so 187.5 isk/m³

=> +42% value per m³ for the best moon ore, compressed, compared to the most common asteroid belt ore.
I wrote 40% because I looked at an arbitrary higher volume (the higher the volume in m³ the lower the price)