Indeed.
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You keep using that word, I donât think it means what you think it means. Especially a âpure, (absoulute) pacifistâ would be someone who offers no resistance to any sort of violence even in self-defence. For the umpeenth time this is not what anyone has advocated, but certain people keep repeating this for some reason.
This too, even though nobody has advocated this course of (in)action either.
Assuming you can destroy their infrastructure and ships so that you can steal their stuff from their dead cold hands⌠Something of which is what the Drifters youâre so deathly afraid of, apparently had trouble doing with substantial fleets later nicknamed as âdeathballsâ. And I say apparently, because like established earlier, we do not know who won, but seeing how we have not yet seen any modified Drifter vessels, the Triglavians seem to have stood their ground so far.
The difference here is this; The Triglavians arenât tearing anyone but the Drifters fleets asunder - and you want to attack them for this. The Caldari, in what is accepted as historical canon, were fighting for their survival as an independent people. OTOH, we are not in any existential danger. The main motivator as you claim yourself is that you just want to steal their crap.
Like I said, for being a former pacificst - term of which definition Iâm not sure you really understood, judging by your later words and actions - you sure have turned your views around to another extreme, that of a war-crazed dog.
âNot seen modified drifterâ
Well we DO have seen the new cruisers, but iâm not sure that what you meanâŚ
(Ooc: we still know nothing about the mutagenic ^^ )
Well, Mr. Nomistrav here is convinced that whoever gets to them first will pilfer and attain whatever technology they have, particularly spaceship techonology, and we have not yet seen Drifters wielding artificial singularities or whatever those orbs are.
Itâs an interesting straw-man - that I just want capsuleers to go into Abyssal Deadspace with the first and foremost intention of destroying and taking everything. Except, thatâs not at all what I said. I said weâd go through the usual attempts at diplomacy. I said weâd go through the usual attempts at non-violence. I said that, if a diplomatic solution could not be reached, we would destroy the Triglavians to ensure the Drifters donât get the technology. I said that a utilitarian and pragmatic solution was in order to prevent losing any progress we may have in the offensive against humanityâs common threat.
And through all of that you read, âI want to commit genocide against this new faction of human beings and take their technologyâ.
Seems to me that youâre reading what you want to and vilifying us for that. Congratulations.
((OOC: In response to Fallenstar, us even being at Fanfest was considered IC and the new chronicle canonizes the cosplay competition as being IC as well, from what I hear. I think itâs safe to say we know about mutaplasmids by now.))
(I asked about it directly to ccp burger and he said ânope, only what angry concord guy said was ICâ
Otherwise my âknown factâ list would have been much more complete and I would have needed a complete ton of tin for my hat and theories ^^ )
Considering you also said that a diplomatic (i.e. nonviolent, pacifistic) approach is âimpractical and largely illogicalâ and "we will go into this new expanse and apply the usual methods of attempts at diplomacy that have gotten us into so much trouble (?) in the past. " Sounds like to me that you donât consider diplomatic approach a particularly high priority, already assuming it wonât work. âAnd we will surely fire back when we are inevitably fired on first.â
You then also mused that âwhat if the Caldari only conducted similarly pacifistic banterâ, which is a completely different situation where there was an actual, demonstratable, immediate threat.
So yes, reviewing what youâve said so far in this thread, I got the impression that you just want to get your grubby hands on unknown technology before anyone else can, and if that is impossible, prevent others getting it by any means necessary⌠I mean, sorry, âfor utilitarian and pragmatic reasons.â
EDIT: And take the title of this very thread, created by you. âCONCORDâs Call to Arms.â That doesnât sound one bit like âweâll try not to screw this first contact situation up for everyoneâ but a foregone conclusion that you will fight them.
I said nothing about genocide, by the way, just that you want to go raid their stuff, by force. But is this what they call a âFreudian slip?â 
Likewise. Youâve vilified me and others who have not agreed with you about the scale of the Drifter threat, accusing people of passivism and whatnot, so, insert a proverb of âperson doing thing criticizing others for doing thing.â
If I rolled my eyes any harder, I would likely need a new âOdinâ. Everything that you quoted was directed toward the constant bickering of people not unlike yourself who routinely condemn us for doing everything in our power to attempt diplomatic measures while being shot at. And then to quote me saying that we will retaliate if fired upon as if thatâs a bad thing? As if you yourself would not do the same? I hesitate to believe for a second that that is the case and I donât think I need to bring up the public killboards to prove my point thereâŚ
When will you people get it through your Veldspar-dense skulls that there are instances in which diplomacy will not work? Why do you routinely ask the impossible of us knowing that it is, in fact, impossible? Some entities in this world simply cannot be negotiated with and I donât see a legion of people lining up to ask the Rogue Drones to stop making hives in high-sec or the Guristas to stop making FOBâs likewise. Itâs infuriating beyond belief and even I, an Intaki, who are known for patience, am getting tired of it.
Just⌠stop. You know what youâre doing. You know it is not productive and you know it solves nothing.
EDIT: And again, if it is NOT us⌠It WILL be other capsuleers. It WILL be the Drifters. It will be any number of forces that do not give a â â â â about your constant attempts to dissuade the inevitable and turn this into a philosophy class wrapped in the thin veneer of a personal bias. What are you doing to stop THEM?
I think there could be always an oportunity to punish those who would try to invade Triglavian space, unprovoked and uninvited. Lets not forget that Triglavians were mainly the reason why Drifters vere in such a poor shape recently, we should then try to treat them as potential allies. I say we should at least treat Triglavians with respect and not bother them in their domain, also showing that the acts of agression towards them are not welcome in our societes. I am sure CONCORD would officially agree and look at every such intrusion into Triglavian domain as a very harmfull act for future relations.
CONCORD literally asked us to investigate these Abyssal Deadspace pockets⌠They called a conference of capsuleers to brief us on the impending threats to humanity⌠Why on earth would they look at âintrusionâ of the Triglavian Domain - which we donât even know for sure is âtheirâ domain - as a harmful act of future relations when they are pointing us in their directionâŚ?
Investigation doesnt mean automatically any harmful acts towards them. There may be many facets of research. It is rather a strange idea to think about everyone as an enemy. I would rather wait and watch what kind of contact we could establish, watching and monitoring. I understand this is pointing our attention in their direction as well.
As for the space from where they came, where they can live, I think its very similar to our understanding of a living space and borders. It would be best to think of them as equals I think.
on my opinion the diplomacy with the triglavian take itâs answer in the âentity â (or entities) behind them.
Either it is capable of diplomacy and they will eventually learn that we are not all the same, with opinion of our own and therefore they will learn who is or isnât their allies ( like almost all factions of new eden)
Either they are not and then war will it be, whatever the first contact is.
EDIT: that said i personally will wait to see if peaceful approach can be made before entering their space
WHO is condemning you for trying diplomacy? I keep seeing you say this, yet I never see it happening.
What I intended with the quote was that you seem to consider it already unsuccesful before even trying and that you will be met with hostile intentions - mind, that is actually probable, you would be intruding to what appears to be an active warzone between the Triglavians and the Drifters.
And you keep steering the discussion to irrelevant diversion arguments. Rogue drones or Guristas are known factors that of which behaviour we can to high degree predict - mind, you can negotiate at least with Guristas, they understand cash if nothing else.
But when we now, yet again, meet a completely unknown culture, we should strive to the utmost to actually make nice with them. I know I will, though my efforts will likely be already hampered by thousands of other capsuleers just pouring in, kicking the owners in the groin and stealing anything not bolted down.
What is it that Iâm doing then? If you mean, ânot trying to start yet another war with yet another entity with vastly advanced technologyâ, you would be correct.
You keep referencing this mysterious âusâ when Iâve almost the entire time addressed just you and your âcall to arms.â
Like I acknowledged above, I know that there will be people gunning for this area of space, I canât personally stop them all. But I can try. I could petition CONCORD to halt their plans to release these, what were they, âfilamentsâ to capsuleers until proper communication channels with the Triglavians can be reached and that the empires could reach non-aggression pacts at the very least with them, before the 1% of the 1% goes and craps it up for everyone, again.
They will likely ignore me, a lone capsuleer, but dammit, Iâll try.
EDIT: Petition drafted and sent.
Take it somewhere else, Teinyhr. Just arguing rhetoric and semantics at this point.
I already took it somewhere else, to CONCORD, since theyâre the ones who hold the reins to the bloodhounds right now.
I think if what we want is some diplomacy with these Triglavian. Then itâs action we want and not words that can be cheaply tossed out. If peace with this new faction is what some of us really desire. Then what you need to do is join in the conflict against the Drifters.
If there really is a war going on between the Trigs and Drifters. It would be in our best interests to show we have a common enemy and focus aggression on the Drifters. Show them that we can work together in this conflict.
Also, thereâs a matter of them wanting to speak to us. IF CONCORD attempts to reach out and the Trigs ignore them. Then what? Just sit on our hands until they break this vow of silence they appear to have? Not with the technology they have at their disposal. weâll just have to go in and find what we can, see if we can snag a ship much like CONCORD did. Because whatever they got is doing a number on these Drifters; they got the firepower we need.
Face it, if the Trigs donât respond to any attempts at diplomacy. Probably not interested, thus are going to be prepared to fight us off when the times. Might as well treat them to a battle, no? However if i do ever stumble across some crossfire between the twoâŚIâd show them Iâm interested in wiping out Drifter scum than them. Maybe that would get them talking.
You, sir, have earned my deep respect.
That would be probably an opportunity to take sides if you ask me. Not watching passively.
CONCORDâs comments on the Collective were interesting. It sounded like there was something fairly radical about the way theyâve developed as a people.
Considering that it sounds like this isnât a Jovian offshoot weâre going to be encountering Iâm really curious what theyâre like. The name, âCollective,â makes me wonder if maybe theyâre something kind of like an ancient, highly-evolved version of Sanshaâs Nation. It seems like that would make more sense for an entity of this size than being, like, I donât know, a scaled-up circle of artists and writers or something.
I prefer to fight for something that has meaning for me. To protect our homeland from invaders. Why would I need to pick a side in a conflict I donât even know what it is about?
Especially when there is still the Federation that represents the major threatâŚ