Can we have a frig (existing or new) with a range bonus to survey scanners?
I use frigs to scout for mining spots for a fleet of miners. This involves warping to a belt, flying around, doing a few scans and then providing a warp in point for the fleet. Sometimes you’ll scout several belts at a time to make sure you get the best possible spot.
This process would be a lot easier with a range bonus to survey scans on some kind frig, especially the new moon belts. Ideally a t1 exploration frig/cov ops, or a vent/expedition frig.
Doesn’t need to be anything near the orcas 500% bonus. 100% role bonus or 20% per level will suffice.
They can get access to them. The problem is you are asking for a frigate to replace a porp/orca without an issue of why the porp is not a lighter faster version of the orca.
If I am flying into a belt to get the “best possible spot” I show up in a frigate of any type and completely ignore the size and quantity of the asteroid belts zero times. A frigate has speed so it can move about easily but take more time to do the same job. The Porp is slower but gets the job done in one scan usually without actually trying to position self and can create bookmarks AS WELL as be prepared to burst while an orca is in transit.
If it’s low/null space you’re not even using either of these ships.
I’m not going to use a porpoise to scout belts in dangerous space. It involves jumping hostile gates/wh’s and staying on grid and checking the position of rocks. 6 second align is too slow for scouting, especially multiple belts.
Porpoise will also not let you swap ships in the maintenance bay without having to launch an empty ship into space first. I’d rather avoid this for obvious reasons.
You said nothing about training time…
Porpoise is not suitable. It’s just too big and too slow. It’s a fine mining support ship, giving a frigate a survey range boost is not going to replace the porpoise. That is absurd. But I’d like a scout with a range bonus.
And yet there are two of such scanning ships in the game… One you included in the OP, the second I mentioned and you weren’t willing to risk. The third is using any frigate (probably a venture) with the module fitted for default scanning range.
ML-3 gives you a 20k range, T2 is 22.5k, and T1 is 15k but NONE of these are used for optimal positioning to mine everything in a belt. So the real question is why aren’t your mining lasers maximum range what you are considering for optimal warp in point rather than what ore you see?
Scanning determines how much is left but is normally discarded when mining optimal positioning.
What would you gain from a ship which still can’t tell you where optimal range is with a longer scanner?
If that type of thinking was always used we wouldn’t have a venture. You’d say ‘use a barge or an unbonused frig’.
What I’m doing is warping to belts, seeing which rocks have the most in. Which of those rocks are close enough to eachother to be mined at once or quickly and then comparing such batches within and across belts to maximise income. Then finally providing the warp in point for the fleet members before swapping out to a mining ship itself.
I’m doing this with tech 1 frigs at the moment. But heck it could be made easier with a bit more range allowing me to check/compare more rocks at once. I am ‘scouting’ and I’m using a ship designed for scouting. It’s just not bonused for the type of scouting that I’m doing. It’d be very handy if it was.
It wouldn’t over shadow the porpoise which would not only have more scan range, but more tank, more dps, more mining yield, mining boosts, a fleet hangar, more capacity and more everything except speed.
Another way to put this idea would be to recognise survey scanning as a module used by scouts (which it already is) and put such bonuses on the appropriate ships.
Navitas. I’m older than you are apparently because I remember the days where protecting the Navitas mining ship was paramount… Then they changed it into the frigate of support.
This actually doesn’t even require knowledge of how many rocks have how much ore. This is target not going to be improved with more scanning range. It’s not going to be improved by giving you a frigate that can scan an entire belt in one ping either. It won’t tell you which rocks are closest together without looking with your eyes still or at the very minimum positioning your ship in a scanning point. This is not done in high sec space as it’s a waste of time and income. And as you declared you wouldn’t be doing that in low/null because risk is too great.
It is a catch 22. What you want doesn’t exist in the format you wish to use it in so you would like it to be created cheaper and easier for you to use in a manner which you won’t really use it in anyway?
As someone who actually has spent days strip mining entire systems of ore what you appear to be asking for is something that will replace your orca or porp because you don’t wish to risk them for the benefit they give. The benefit is then nullified in a situation you won’t actually use those ships in anyway.
Lets play the assumption game.
Say your ship gets created with scanning range bonus only. You fly it into a belt in high sec and you’ll end up positioning it for maximum ore income and start mining resulting in it’s scanning bonus being useless as position is primary over rock totals. You either eat everything or you waste time and lower your income.
Inversely if you take this into low/null you won’t actually be flying an orca/porp into those situations resulting in the benefit being useless again as speed of getting to location and exiting is more important to avoid losing your ships. It would also discard the Rorqual which is king in those situations regardless of range.
iirc the frigates and cruiser changes predated the venture.
I don’t think you fully grasp what I’m doing. I’m searching belts with a ship to find good spots before mining them. This is a good thing to do when you want to maximise your income in a short space of time (you’re either in dangerous space or competition amongst miners is high).
The rest of your post is again absurd. I am already using a frigate in this way. I am already using my eyes and the hud for rock positions but the survey scanner is used for getting the exact size of each rock. And since you cannot easily save scans, I’d like to be able to cover more of a belt at once for comparing groups of rocks.
Read: i am not an afk miner (usually) just mindlessly chewing rocks from one end of the belt at a time. I don’t finish belts because the best spots are spread out and/or i don’t have time before enemies notice me/competition chew the rest.
How would this change not benefit me and others when people are already doing it? This just makes it faster and easier. It makes sense (to me) to have a scout ship with such a bonus.
This is why i think we’re thinking of different things.
I’m scouting. Not sitting scanning while i mine. It doesn’t matter if I’m not using an orca. I can still scout for a fleet of ventures and find a spot that maximises income for the shortest amount of time.
Have you mined in anoms? Or the new refinery moon belts? Cause the rocks are tens of kilometres apart in a massive ball. They aren’t in a strip you just chomp along like a caterpillar on a leaf.
Flipped to maximum income over range of mining lasers.
You already are doing what you are asking for.
In which case the range doesn’t matter.
Yes. To both. Ping points are more important than distances to rocks in a moon belt as you can safely exit on a second’s notice. I have hoovered entire anoms up also. Everything is still in a plan for how you mine everything to death regardless of the shape of the leaf.
This is where “limited time” is relative. If I go out there in low or nul space I know exactly what ore I am looking for which does not matter on the size of the rock but merely which type. Venture fills up pretty fast. Prospect takes longer but also comes home with a good chunk of ore, endurance is more risky but can still make it’s weight worth it when targeting the right thing in the right area. None of these really compare to a full scale boosted skiff fleet eating an ice anom with an orca booster and freighter to haul it to be compressed.
None of that compares to the rorq’s noms.
It’s a general fault that people think that the size of the rock is the problem. The problem is that you’re using too much on a single target that will not last. Split lasers, time outputs for when you need to give the ore to the hauler, prepare movements before you need to move to another location when a rock ends by planting yourself in the proper locations to avoid movement initially or get a rorqual and just eat everything.
When you start worrying about what type of which rock you need to mine for maximum income you are wasting time that you could be mining. If you don’t know which rocks to mine it’s a very simple process of quantity trumps quality. A full hold of ordinary ore is greater than a partial load of 10% bonus.
The uncommon mistake is thinking all ore is the same. Compare omber and plag. These ores are in the same belts btw…
Also, you can take an orca and barge fleet into dangerous space and mine during a wardec. And time isn’t just about danger but competition with other miners. You’re probably mining into half eaten belts, which is more time moving in slow barges or watching other people take more valuable ores whilst you slowly chew along the line.
Maybe it’s quiet where you are. It’s not where i am.