The fight for Not Red Don't Shoot (NRDS) Providence region continues!

CVA has no Divine right to Providence.

CCP should remove their titles and honors for their failure to maintain “their” space.

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ftfy

I actually agree with you.

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Hi Sherm. I have to disagree with you on one point. The “never bend the knee” thing with Of Sound Mind living in 9-F0B at the time, basically a rebellion against EQ/CVA’s authority, happened in 2013. If long term memory serves me, it had something to do between Of Sound Mind and Volition Cult, another member of the coalition, involving a mistake about a jump freighter contract and, some time later, friendly fire. Kids in the sand, right ? Since that time a lot of other stuff has happened, like PL invasions, SN2, etc.

It’s more likely the demise of Provi bloc is due to metal fatigue and rusty ways of doing things. Some strongholders left over time, individuals like Furi, entire groups like Volition Cult and others, and were only partially replaced. And, like you say, our ‘beloved’ -7- and even groups like Coalicion Hispana, would never be sufficient to hold all the gates, especially with a determined, cap/supercap fleet wielding challenger like TRC and associates. There is no RnK around anymore to throw a wrench into the meat grinder, or any other group for that matter. The signs for the end were visible on the map in the summer of 2019, the necessary responses simply weren’t happening. Provi bloc had never allowed any hostile group to establish and hold sov in Provi before. That said it all.

But honesty has its place too. Any (former) member of any well-knit group in any game will speak fondly and proudly of days past, whichever side of the gates they fought on. That’s not sufficient to make everything factual, except the fact that they had a good time in a game serving the purpose of creating good times.

Yeah, NRDS works as a concept. You simply MAKE it work and enforce the rule and, like any other group you make sure your back is covered.

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So since CVA is no longer a thing, does this mean I can come back and be “King of Amarr Low Sec” with my pirate corp? :smiley:

It was never NRDS. There was no control of their KOS list. I took 3 different toons who were as neutral as could possibly be to CVA et al and was aggressed by the CVA locals. 1 of them was on the KOS list… lol and he never undocked for years before I went to do business in the area.

Think Neo in the waiting room… ‘There is no NRDS.’

Eve players are more trigger happy than a 16 year old kid looking through a hole into the girls locker room.

There was zero enforcement. It was a garbage lie.

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on the flipside there were pilots that for over a decade had confirmed awox kills in provi corps/alliances, killed provi folks in provi etc and were still never KOS on their characters.

a simple corp hop and application and back in provi again… pathetic.

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More useless propaganda.
Rocket Hellfire and Cosmo Kramer TheAssMan, I dare you to use your main toons. By the look of your killboards you’ve never suffered any losses in Providence.

Every time this thread comes up, I think it is about “Not Red Dot!”

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Even better, Rocket Hellfire is listed as not-KOS. Does that mean he’s been living in fear for nothing ?

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They’re still around. After they defeated ProviBloc, they moved north to Placid and Syndicate.

And yet you still are homeless. I did hear the great wildlands are now the hot commodity for NRDS failbears so maybe you can try there.

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A typically childish answer Cosmo. It has nothing to do with what he said. And yes Provi was defeated - know any serious coalitions that have never suffered defeat?

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It was more than just EQ.

What garbage.

You! You lost control over your own damn corporation when you went AFK for years and the new CEO voted themselves a ton of extra shares. You’re responsible for EQ taking over and for everything that followed.

Neutrals weren’t under ‘protection’, they just weren’t shot at by those following NRDS. NRDS did not mean rushing out and saving people doing dumb things like taking freighters through YMPL gate.

What a waste.

It used to be, back in 2003.

This is pretty much the best explanation.

Many of the big blocks most well known personalities got their start in Providence. Its one of the problems with Providence, if any FC showed tallent they got poached.

TRC, PHEW and SF weren’t exactly big. It was a slow rot from within IMHO.

NRDS would have been a lot simpler if there wasn’t a standing limit of 1000 slots. It would have been a lot simpler if ACL’s could have been used to colour the overview. It would have been a lot simpler, if Observatories were a thing so that there was an active counter to one bot-lord douchbag with 100 alts cloaky camping the entire region for months. It would have been a lot simpler if CVA leadership didn’t string people along with promises of ‘getting sov’ and then acting surprised when those groups went red because they felt CVA was breaking promises.

It fell years ago, it just took a long time for CVA leadership to pull their heads out of their assess and realize it.

All the minor alliances were a drain on CVA. When -7- set all their citadels to NA-TZ instead of EU-TZ where there was friendly force ascendancy it basically invited other NA-TZ’s to just come in and roflstomp everything. So many of the minor alliances just did not contribute to defense and were full of spies. It was obvious after the Fozziesov invasion, that many of the minor alliances held space because CVA leadership just didn’t want to pay for iHub bills and didn’t see any strategic worth of locations outside the PvP zone.

Exactly. EQ has gone to a low sec retirement village to PvP as a 2nd tier thrall with scumbag buddies in Snuffed.

An entire alliance of F1 muppets. Coreblood was on a good scam there in F-Y, setting up new doctrines and then gouging people for them. Couldn’t be bothered to defend YMPL from pestilent gate campers, attention span no longer than a tv comercial. I was glad when they went red, their boards were red for days. Now look at them, just another faceless servant of Delve.

Providence had supers, if you used them they usually died. My corporation was forced to give up moons to another corporation in CVA, and later I found out that income was then used to skill inject every one of their pilots into dreads. Then that corp left CVA for PH. So many people in Providence left after they got over the capital barrier for the big blocks, especially supers. I know, because my corporation used to build the damn supers!

Alt-tabbing out to check if you can shoot a guy on some website is not fun gameplay.

Usually when there was a non NRDS kill, if ISK was sent of value to the loss, it was overlooked, but i know firsthand there were alliances that let in people they should not like awoxers and red alts, because nobody had the backbone to sanction actions for fear of the alliance leaving to red space, and CVA was desperate for allies.

I was there. You should be calling for EQ to abdicate or finding a new corporation.

There are not too many coalitions that were defeated by THEMSELVES.

I was there for 5 years. Providence lost power and influence over a long time, partly due to loosing the arms race and partly due to loosing the neutral inhabitants that were attracted by the NRDS philosophy. Too many wars chased away commerce, too many cloaky campers chase away ratters and miners. Removal of docking fees took away one of the few consistent streams of income. Too many corporations in CVA who just leeched of the SRP to pay for their niche PvP content. For most of the 5 years I lived there, 5 corporations out of the dozen or so in the alliance paid for over %60 of the SRP from moons, with the rest from a per-member tax. When moon goo was made an active activity, nobody collected taxes from their output and the SRP was gutted during the NC/PH war to take over all the Providence stations.

That in itself was a very suspicious event, reeks of CSM insider knowledge with the net effect of CVA membership dropping from 2500 people, to 1500, with most of the 1500 being alts or people who had been AFK for years.

By all means, keep fighting, but be sure what you are fighting for? Is NRDS still in force? Is SRP being collected from moons? Is a date set for the liberation?

Or are you fighting because EQ and the rest of the leadership that got CVA into this mess seem to be infallible in your eyes and recognising this might mean realising the years you have wasted on a lost cause?

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Um, I don’t think we’re talking about the same thing, but I did like many of your other comments.

NRDS lives on, carried by those who recognize it as something different than a banner they fly under or the safety of their assets.
The Providence Leaders might have failed to realize it. They chose their banners or the safety of their assets along with their pride over NRDS. It adds some interesting twist to the history of Providence.
CVA themselves along with other Providence holders were doing a great job for more than 10 years.
NRDS itself remains, just don’t confuse it with the claimed space or whatever other means that NRDS players and neutrals lost access to.

Don’t buy into propaganda of the disgruntled ex-NRDS guys either!

CONCORD doesn’t protect the players in HS from stupid mistakes either. If you don’t know the rules you take the hit. Simple.
And yet, NRDS alliances did not simply open their space to neutral traffic. They also had standing fleets, they camped entry gates and those gates where red traffic converged, they roamed the space. They even rushed to neutrals help if it was tactically sound. I remember being saved by NRDS fleet myself. It all contributed to making Providence as safe for everyone as game mechanics and their experience allowed, including neutrals.

This is not a problem at all. If people get bored with NRDS it’s beneficial for the whole game if they can do something else instead. I had a taste of NBSI myself which was about joining a CTA every two hours. No thank you, I preferred NRDS (and still do) which allowed me to play more casually.
The problem with Providence is that most players fail to realize that NRDS and all of its infrastracture is the result of players acting civilized and not shooting anyone without a good reason. Our end-game is about following this philosophy. And it brings something uniqe to the game, something that all the other civilized players can take part in, as opposed to doing such common activities as PVE in High Sec or shooting everything that moves.

Game mechanics is what it is. It’s not what NRDS is about though. If sov (claiming space) is what smaller alliances were after they would have turned red regardless of CVA’s best efforts.
I was a part of such an allliance. We were allowed to take the space, we placed an outpost even, we failed to defend the space. CVA wouldn’t help us because we showed literary no will nor presence to defend it. I think exactly every member (excluding me obviously) hated CVA for it since.
What CVA created allowed my alliance to use their space at the price of laughable docking fees, get wealthy to fly ships worth billions of isk and plex accounts, and even claim space. When we lost it all we blamed CVA instead of ourselves.
That’s not what NRDS is all about.

I’ll say it again the space claimed, the wealth, even the pride coming from all those achievements or even the NRDS itself are simply a result of civilized players banding together and creating something uniqe on EVE’s or even gaming scale.
Acting civilized and allowing others to take part in it is our end game. Wealth, space, pride and regognition are merely a result of our play-style.
So yes, NRDS at its core is very simple.

It wasn’t CCP, it was the Empress. It’s a Role Playing (RP) aspect, so feel free to challenge the Empress on this in the RP part of the forums.

That’s a great story you helped to create there. It adds the depth to the game itself and it’s history.
Even building supers is not what NRDS end-game is about, though.

I dislike In-game Browser being gone as well. Although it wasn’t that bad. I personally liked to quickly alt-tab to check the neutral status on the KOS-checker and then to the killboard to find out what I could expect if there was an engagement. A matter of opinion I guess.
Making sure our backs were covered was much bigger than that though. One of the reasons NRDS guys lost claimed space was that it coincided with the war.

Again NRDS guys might have placed their end game where it didn’t belong. I was shot down by CVA many times myself. I would even sometimes shoot someone down accidentally myself. Mistakes happen. My losses weren’t great and overall hating the core CVA for it wasn’t very sensible, because overall they did a magnificent job. Staying civilized was much more important.
If there were players who put all their isk into a single ship and then blamed anyone but themselves for losing it, I would only advise them to notice that they would lose them sooner or later regardless of spies presence.

It has nothing to do with NRDS itself. Especially now with CVA being NBSI in the opposite corner of the galaxy. If EQ along with CVA guys supporting him chose that they no longer want to be the driving force behind the civilization in Providence, so be it.
On the plus side this whole situation allows to clarify what NRDS is and isn’t about and adds an interesting twist to the story.

Sure, however that contributes to the current situation of brining Civilization back to Providence.
Mistakes were made. People forgot what NRDS is all about and decided to blame each other. Each had their followers, many good players quit the game altogether because of it, some are on the verge of doing it because they are losing hope, and some others joined other groups in EVE.
So you can either keep pointing fingers at people or join us in Providence, we will continue to do our thing there regardless of your choice.

As if metagaming has not been part of the game…
Again, space claimed and other perks like moons or SRP were just a result of what NRDS guys have been all about. We are about civilization in Providence. There’s nothing as unique in EVE as that.
Every other 0.0 alliance can offer you perks. Though there’s nothing unique about them.

I could care less about CVA. Quite frankly I never really had a chance to even speak with EQ.
However CVA, -7-, Apocalypse Now., Care Factor and many other guys did awesome job ensuring Amarrian Civilization in Providence for more than a decade. For that I salute all of them o7.

Oh and yes, NRDS is still in force because we are the force behind NRDS.
Don’t buy into anti-NRDS propaganda.
Join the fight and spread the word!

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“No Red Dot, Stupid”

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So where’s your KOS server? Who administers the list? What rules governs its membership? What force, other than faith, exists to promote/enforce at anything of value?

Blue corps with known reds alts. Blues screwing over other blues and claming it was all part of NRDS. Market shenanigans on a daily basis. When people in APOC were caught re-listing in the CVA market, APOC put up their own market module right next door to staging, diluting the market cohesion. A whole region of Alt-Blue corps dodging SRP taxes. A whopping 90 billion spent on lottery tickets to get into the alliance tournament, while people are complaining about corporate office rents of 25 million ISK per month for a citadel they didn’t pay a single cent for.

Its not propaganda, its outright corruption.

People were told not to do things, ejected from the alliance, only to be accepted into another blue alliance just to repeat the same dumb mistakes.

Casual membership is part of the problem and why fleet membership dwindled to the point where FC’s and Line Members were exhausted. There should have been a system of PAP links so all those who were just there to leech could be identified and thrown out.

Whoever held that system should never have allowed your organisation to deploy it to start with. There were so many structures that allowed reds to dock it was sickening, there’s even a youtube of a guy using a citadel to shoot at a CVA fleet because the owner messed up the access list.

Without some kind of authority and ability to enforce it, its all just a wet dream.

The role play aspect of CVA is utter garbage, the only reason CCP gave EQ his baloney title is because the actual RP leader of CCP got thrown out of the alliance and set KOS for pissing EQ off.

That wasn’t meant to be a heartwarming story, it was meant to illustrate how a political decision was made to show favouritism to a group that was entirely self serving to the detriment of the region. Holding sov is about owning and building supers. If you can’t hold sov and defend your borders, NRDS is just words on a bit of paper.

The KOS overlay was much better and did RBL checks way before the ‘offical’ checker implemented them. I am so glad I do not have to put up with that absolutely awful piece of garbage that CVA refused to invest into, despite how important it was to implementing NRDS at the coal face.

That wouldn’t have happened if you’d joined CVA. So many people did not join CVA because there was no additional benefit, people could rat, mine, reprocess and build without obligation, in some places for zero cost

It was a giant circle-jerk and anyone who denies it was part of the circle. For many people the loss of Providence was the end of their game, though for many it wasn’t much of a gameplay.

Not going anywhere near that until CCP fix some of their broken game mechanics like TZ tanked structures and implement Observatory citadels like they promised years ago.

There’s metagaming and downright cheating. CCP announced the ore rebalance with less than a fortnight’s warning, if the Station changeover to Faction Fortizars was treated the same way a bunch of them wouldn’t have been pushed over by PL/NC.

Its not the perks you have to watch for, its the lies.

APOC, CF, TSOE, AFK, YF, ARX were worse than reds. TSOE just sat in TXJ pretending they weren’t just building supers. CF, AFK, YF and ARX were traitors that went red. APOC is a bunch of fail industrialists that constantly underperformed in CTA participation. Its sad what happened to -7- but when you have people starting wars at Eve-Events by calling people’s girlfriends fat/stupid what do you expect.

Yeah? How many supers do you have?

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…tickle us, do we not laugh?

…prick us, do we not bleed?

…wrong us, shall we not revenge?

CVA is getting exactly what it has it coming to it…Toe Bees

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Maybe if your “Alliance bigwigs” hadn’t acted so quickly in blocking an entire 600 strong alliance for the mistake of one of it’s members when he killed someone from a Providence based corp OUTSIDE of Providence, then you could have had some help! The whiney little girl went running to the big chiefs and whined that he was killed but failed to mention that he wasn’t in Providence at the time! The alliance were ready to move down to Providence too… but no, just one member messed it all up. I could see the point if it was in the Providence region but it wasn’t. So it’s your loss! NRDS is for Providence ONLY! not the rest of the Eve universe!!

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Still no sign of where to apply for this new order of null sec…