The fight for Not Red Don't Shoot (NRDS) Providence region continues!

I see little difference between the current occupants of Providence and CVA in its current ROE posture.

Until CCP make the overview colorable by ACL, the KOS checker will still be needed when Providence is reclaimed right? Can’t keep running it on 2012 tech forever.

This is why Providence was lost, the refusal to learn from mistakes and hold people to account for their actions.

I was in Sanctuary Pact for a couple of months. My time in CVA was a lot longer, long enough to sit at the table to watch how the sausage was made. Thorn and I disagreed over a particular viewpoint, I said if he didn’t believe me I would walk, which I did.

Say what? My K/D is 316:105, yours is 1,023:3,488 and I am almost twice as dangerous as you are. I am not in Providence. There is no point fighting for a territory for the same CVA leadership that ran it into the ground.

It was not neutrals leeching off the NRDS, it was the disgusting amount of alt corps run by people people in CVA leadership dodging billions of SRP and alliance taxes for years.

Really? That was not what people in CVA said of those who splintered off to do NRDS elsewhere in Eve. They laughed when they failed. CVA just never got around the chicken and egg problem of needing supers to stay relevant in the Sovereignty game.

CCP is not taking the game in a direction that I agree with. They certainly did no favours to CVA with a number of changes. Providence was pretty much a ghetto during blackout, in that MER bounties were down 600 billion. Oddly the most resent MER shows MESS/DBS has caused the same lackluster activity as blackout.

All of Providence belongs to CVA as its chose people, didn’t you know? Any flag other than CVA is either red, or simple a custodian of the system. That, and EQ knew CVA couldn’t afford to pay the 30 billion every month for IHUB and TCU fees without actually charging blues for access.

Stalin. Power comes from the barrel of a gun. You have no power.

Then why do you even need to go to Providence when you can just do factional warfare for Amarr?

Sorry, only the victors get to give themselves fancy titles. CVA squandered their position. The way CCP is heading with Eve, there won’t be many new organizations getting to the 14 year mark.

Of course not, if space was held at all costs CVA would have quit years before from all the dumb blue structures that we would have been expected to defend.

Its hard to believe CVA earned the space through force of arms at the start, after the invasion following Fozziesov, it was TEST who came and gave CVA the breathing room to get their flags back up. Hell, CVA and AAA got along so well because AAA knew we weren’t a threat to their territory.

It was not just the supers, it was that CVA haemorrhaged skilled players and their ships to other null groups constantly, so when non-super size battles occurred, there were fewer players to contest it.

For what? Not like there is much blue left in the game.

Really? There were corporations in CVA that just asked if you could hold a mouse and tell the difference between the F1 button and your genitals.

Its not about making them red, its about people applying for corporations just to get standings for benefits, without giving anything in return, ever and weak corporation leadership never picking people up over it.

Some got freed, others like you are still pretending that the status quo was worth anything.

CCP have given NRDS very little love and CVA got the shaft so many times at the hands of CCP its just silly and sickening to see CCP hand out crap like RP titles and everyone in that crowd fawns over it like they didn’t just get poked in the eye with a slice of lemon.

See how long you are willing to do that for your $15 a month before it gets old.

Its not lies, I was there, at the table, for years.

See, this is the kind of attitude that results in an automatic fail for CVA entry, there are only a few hard core rules, but following them isn’t opt-in.

Tell that to the 2500 people that paid billions in SRP to fund the PvP of about 200 on a regular basis, though honestly, for years, a large portion of that all came out of passive moon ore that was harvested by about 12 people.

Don’t need to fight. I’m retired.

Looking at the map, nobody is doing anything and CVA has dropped below 750 members, most of whom are going to be alts.

Everyone gets shot in Providence, its like the space version of Old Detroit.

Talking of bringing Amarr Civilization, has EQ set a date yet for the return?


Well that and some people in CVA leadership did a bad job of setting expectations. Dangling Sovereignty in front of more than a few groups upset them when they didn’t get it, and one group left not knowing they were about to get it.

Over promising and under delivering. Letting FC’s start fights with people we needed to be our friends. Never met Hardin, but Aralis lost control over his own corporation because he didn’t understand the share mechanics, so not really someone I thought should be in charge at the alliance level, lest we got 'The Judge’d by some director in his corporation.

Nor is there in supporting the current CVA regime.

Pretty much this.

The only time I heard EQ get really mad is when someone complained about the cost of a doctrine Machariel and that’s why they always flew vigils, and EQ noticed that they were a corp CEO who’d been in Providence for 5 years and asked why they couldn’t afford a mach. “Because I spent it all on mining ships and building ships”

It always did, so many blues just compressed and shipped their stuff out to Jita.

CVA did many of these things badly, especially incentivising membership of the alliance.

Did you ever consider that you were the bad guys?

NRDS. Only shooting people that deserved it, as opposed to shooting because you could. Though, some in CVA insisted that NRDS meant people should be able to dock for free, back when stations had docking fees, so that their neutral alt corps didn’t have to pay. To this day I still believe after citadels NRDS should have been interpreted strictly, in that NRDS meant those who were not red did not get shot, and everyone who was not blue couldn’t dock, get cheap PI or buy all the stuff off the market and immediatley re list it, or worse, sell it off at Jita.

No. They had to break a few rules, obviously killing blues got you set red very fast. Slandering the Empress got you set red. Having anything in your BIO that said you were a pirate got you set red.

That said, there were a number of people in CVA who left for red areas, only to come back with a red fleet, then leave the red and become blue again like a revolving door.

Allowing neutrals to dock meant red spies could easily log into a system and see who was in local, didn’t even need to cloaky camp. This was before Alpha too, so at least all those red spies paid for the privilege. The best and worst aspect was the stations, they were good in that they allowed very decent manufacturing/reprocessing, but bad in that you couldn’t kick people out once they got in there. Systems like S-25 were much more habitable before a station was put in there, after that, it became a horrid quagmire.

I do not know of this being done when I was in CVA, but when there were ‘recommended’ amounts of kills to do each month, there was a toggle added to remove MTU’s and n00bships after people complained of ‘padding’ the numbers.

They were arrogant and living in the past. They brought failure upon themselves.

I support CVA, just not under the current leadership.

Yep, and people left because it was suffocating the residents.

Yes, I read it. Was not impressed.

There was nothing stopping Red Alert from dropping out and joining CVA but pride.

They certainly lack the relevance they used to.

If only there wasn’t a blue doughnut, maybe they could shoot each other for a change.

The Amarr factional warfare crowd were never in a position to support Providence, they were always too far away to be of use. People did not invest in their characters and yes, some always complained about the doctrine needing too many SP or too costly.

Hope the Empress doesn’t ask for a refund.


I posted that with some irony after the Sep '20 MER was released (+2.99 T).
I did dive into the MER’s I could find in the devblogs (Feb '16 to Nov '20 - with Jan '18 missing/corrupted including the zip download), out of curiosity because my recollection was different.
In summary:
2016 (Feb - Dec) only 1 month net positive export (Dec), 10 negative (5 strongly)
2017 (complete), 2 of 12 net negative (1 strongly), 10 of 12 positive (9 strongly) - best year in the available data
2018 (Jan missing) 7 negative, 4 positive (one possibly having to do with an evac cos of Pandemic Legion invasion starting in Jan)
2019 (complete) 9 negative, 3 positive
2020 (Dec not published yet) 7 negative, 4 positive (one possibly for evac)

Would like to get my hands on older data (pre-Feb 2016). Is that available anywhere ?

So as of this moment, are there any parts of Providence that are NRDS, and if so, where?

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Mostly Arton to r3 and 18-

No part of Providence is now, nor ever has been, NRDS.
Some of the players in Providence are NRDS. SOME.

the primary difference, is the implicit trust granted to neutrals under the NRDS policy, to behave and not go knocking over any one elses sand castles, with the consequence of violating that trust being a red tag. Now the thing is, having a red tag in NRDS space is probably MORE dangerous than having no tag in NBSI space, because in NRDS land folks are so hungry for something to shoot that they will chase every little thing with intent to kill, if it shows up red. where as in the rest of null you are just as likely to have a friendly chat with the inhabitants, about where you might go to find a “gud fight” as to be shot on site.

Part of this may be due to starvation for “content” artificially imposed by the NRDS policy, some of it may be RP defending of ones ideals but as one who has played in provi in the bad old days, and played with test and played with goons, and is presently back to being a filthy carebear for a while to build isk… this is my view of the duality of these policies.

Exactly. That’s a great point. Providence is not NRDS. The players make it NRDS.
When they have enough determination and motivation.

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going to take u up on your offer to get a hold of you in game … NRDS sounds very much like a playstyle I can relate to both in-game and outside as well … peace

Filthy neutrals, at least you know where you stand with reds.

Death to neutrals!

This is terribly sad, Providence and NRDS gameplay was something ever eve player have heard, it was, for the beginners, almost the only way to have an introduction to null sec and be indipendant.

I got countless stories from players who went to cva space in providence to avoid wars in high sec…

It was also a dream for hunters to hunt there and to have funny content.

So I definitly don’t understand why you remooved a gameplay and also a part of Eve history… Really I don’t understand. This Nrds was created by players and added something to this game. How many null sec space solar systems are claimed by big blocks and completly empty and not lived ?


Well, the answer is pretty simple. Players don’t want it and don’t need it.
I’ve been approached by many players interested in it, who would show their support by ratting and exploring safely in Providence. When they hear they will have to fight for a safe Providence they lose their interest altogheter :slight_smile:
That’s why there is no NRDS Providence.
And it wasn’t destroyed. CVA, APOC and -7- just packed and left it.

Of course it was destroyed. When other groups continually invade the space, harrass the inhabitants, degrade the Holder’s ability to defend it, wage a relentless propoganda campaign to denigrate the status of the inhabitants and the Holder’s of the space . . . what do you call that if not “destroying it”?
If someone went and beat up your dad or your roommate or whoever you live with, stole your car out of your garage, lit your kitchen on fire, told all your neighbors you’re an *******, etc., would that not be “destroying” your household and home?

If you think it wasn’t destroyed, you are either ignorant or a liar. (I suppose you could be an ignorant liar . . .)

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Dude, you’re comparing a coalition of Capsuleers to a household.
Armies fight to defend their territory.
CVA and others packed their things and left. Period.

This is why the good guys can never win, their idea of winning is peace.

WTH do we need with peace? :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

You heard it, running away isnt losing.

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Wez never lose a battle, if we win we win, if we die we die fightin’ so it don’t count. If we runs for it we don’t die either, cos we come back for annuva go, see!

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Nah, you’re right. I’m just an asshole.
CVA, APOC and -7- did a great job over the years. I couldn’t do better.
I apologize.


Dude, you’re comparing a [thing] with [not thing].
I know, right? Analogies and metaphors and symbolic thinking and reasoning are so dumb. Next I’m going to try to tell you that x = 4 and so x+10 = 14 or x*x = 16. Abstraction is for noobz. I have seen the light. Thank you.
From now on, the only thing I will compare to 4 is 4. :worried:

CVA screwed up when their members started forcibly making other members take a knee to their cult mentality. Either bend your knee to CVA or they toss you out. Bend your knee and CVA will own everything that you have.

I was in a Provi Bloc corporation for several months. Everything started out fine. Then the attacks started, members label others as spies and what have you. The next thing you know, you are being told to leave the corporation and get your personal items out, all while the same CVA corporations that you were once allies with are attacking your transports on the way out.

CVA is a pirate corporation and cannot be trusted.

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