I understand your position. It’s not unlike mine.
I hate the Trigs and would love to see them kicked back to wherever they’re from, or at least to the other Empire’s spaces. They did a whole lot of damage to the State. But if they could be used to benefit the State, I’m not against the idea. But then, what does my opinion matter in the subject, eh?
And what actions might those be? In what way have I ever acted against the State?
From my experience those that make those claims about my person either assume I have done things I simply have not, or find some convoluted manner to set the standard for being disloyal so low that it would also apply to an absurd number of other people.
Though in either case, as Strike Commander Kim said, your opinion holds no weight on the matter.
Your persistent attempts to paint me as a ‘traitor’ have about as much weight as the Sedevacantist Church’s claims about what is and is not God’s will.
Little more that irritating white noise.
It’s not just my position, Ms. Jenneth.
We live in a meritocracy and members of your organization lack clearance to judge loyalty of State citizens, especially State officers.
If you have concern about any of our officers, you shall put a direct request privately for investigation. Doubting loyalty of State officers in public media might be considered as a defamation attack on a State officer and will put on you a target mark to be hunted down for that crime.
The same goes for @Amicia_Cora
You both are to cease and desist.
And bring public apologies to Ms. Remilia for your words… unless you want to be treated as enemies of the State.
I am their Directrix, you are not.
Spare me the internationalist nonsense, Ms. Cora. I saw the behavior of those alleged allies time and time again, I saw Federal filth burning Ichoriya down with glee as these so-called united defenders ran away with their tail behind their legs. I called out for assistance whenever a State system was hit only to be met with indifference, lazy incompetents complaining that “All State systems are lost causes.”
I even volunteered to join defense fleets as soon as Sakenta was hit as a logistics pilot, inexperienced as I may have been, only to be informed that I was permanently barred from the defense fleets due to my presence in Vale.
I know it must be very easy to sing praises to EDENCOM as a subject of the Empire that reaped all the benefits of its existence, but it has been nothing short of a joke for the State. How you can ask for collaboration as the Feds routinely stab us in the back and Matari terror cells brutalize your fellow faithful, I can never understand.
I have no regrets whatsoever. I engaged nothing but enemies of the State. That the Triglavians may have benefited from it in some manner is merely incidental. Am I to assume you are serving the Sansha agenda because of how eager you are to destroy their enemies as well? I am sure the Nation is more than thankful for every non-slaved militant eliminated from New Eden.
Are you suggesting I talk to manager of every person who commits a crime against the State?
I am not really paid for that.
They have been warned and that’s enough for me.
As though you know now, that’s your problem, not mine. Solve it as you wish, though be aware that your subordinates might become enemies of the State if they don’t submit, and I really wouldn’t recommend covering or hiding them from the justice, that will reach them in that case… one way or another.
Acknowledging CONCORD is one thing, insisting I fight on the behalf of a Federation that was actively attacking us at the time is another. Attacking us both in the context of the CEMWPA conflict and attacking EDENCOM-seconded forces attempting to repel the Triglavians.
Am I supposed to be repentant for returning the favor?
The EDENCOM capsuleer fleets would not accept my assistance, so I took the fight to the enemy.
Are we pretending that an organisation, formed according to a multilateral treaty; overseen at the highest level by officials of its treaty partners, equates to your time in the entourage of itinerant Minmatar warlords?
If Amicia Cora was fleeted and flanked by True Citizens as she engaged those enemies, I’d call suspicions of hidden Sansha loyalties very reasonable.
What a lovely collection of untenable positions.
Will you be investigating your employee that aided in the recent destruction of a Federal carrier under the same suspicions then? It was one of the very few occasions where I have co-existed with Triglavians on grid, shooting the same target after all.
The point I was making was that judging one’s loyalty through convoluted “the enemy of your enemy who is also your enemy might benefit from this” nonsense is utterly moronic.
I investigate all of my employees’ affiliations very carefully. I can tell you confidently not all of them have been loyalists. That is neither here nor there; Saitsuo has never billed itself as a ‘loyalist corporation’. Merely an effective security company led by one.
In general I agree that too much emphasis is placed on whom one flies with and not enough whom one flies against. I myself am perfectly willing to use any capsuleer group, no matter what their professed affiliation, to win the war against the Federation.
But I think any analogy between our situations is limited. The point is, there is nothing ridiculous or unreasonable about the criticism laid against you, even if it is ultimately untrue. Acting as if it isn’t or trying to deflect it onto a “You, too” is not convincing.
Oh, we all know that EDENCOM is an alliance only so far as reasonable deniability can be maintained. There was manuvering and backstabbing all over, they’re just good at keeping it out of the public sight. I know that the Empire and the Republic took what shots at each other that they could, I’m privy enough to have seen the evidence. I’ve even seen things that suggest there were actions taken against the State by the Empire. We all know it’s only a matter of time before the “Golden Fleet” turns it’s eyes on the jewel that is the State, and against non-believers, anything is permissable, isn’t it?
Which was my whole point to begin with. In case it was not clear, I was not really accusing Ms. Cora or her organization of assisting Sansha. It was meant to display how absurd the claim that I was acting in service of the Collective was.
In a perfect world, I would have attacked enemies of the State; Federal, Republican and Triglavian alike wherever the opportunity presented itself.
EDENCOM-aligned capsuleer fleets disallowed the latter of the three, even before writing off every State system prematurely. Therefore, I did what was left for me to do. Strike our other enemy, just as they did to us.
In any case, this thread has been well derailed at this point, and I would like it to return to the topic at hand, rather than further devolve into the ramblings of foreign maligners.
If anyone has any other objections on the operation and goals of Kigurosaka, I’d be glad to hear them.
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And do you know who did not run?
That’s right.
Electus Matari is not an enemy of the State. The State might consider us its and I cannot help that, but our quarrel is not with you.
See, the thing you’ve never seemed to understand, Ms. Malitia, is that this isn’t something you get to decide. When I challenge you in a place like this, it’s not really you to whom I speak. It’s those around us. They are the ones who will decide the merit of my words, or lack thereof.
I think you actually do understand this, though, even if you seem to pretend not to.
Truth is truth, Ms. Malitia, irrespective of the one who speaks it. And while Ms. Kim closes her ears to those she thinks of as enemies, I think you know that very well.
In a way I admire your dedication to your work. Cleverness and charisma are powerful tools, but the most cunning illusionist is still unable to weave fictions into reality. Perceptions may be deceived, minds misdirected, but what is, is.
If the persistence of truth is annoying to you, perhaps you could consider making better friends with it?
I find the question of Malitia’s past loyalties uninteresting on it’s own. What is more interesting is the light that past activity sheds on the question of current loyalties and objectives in this diplomatic activity that tries to find an accord between the Triglavians and the Caldari whom the Triglavians invaded. Any serious diplomacy at this stage of the game is a losing one for the Caldari unless it starts with the Triglavians making major concessions. If Malitia’s efforts are simply aimed at setting conditions for initial talks, then it’s possible there is no treason involved. Perhaps she believes that the State does not need leverage against the Clades, and that the Triglavians will just retreat and leave the State alone if they are asked nicely enough!
But if she is pushing for something closer to a ceasefire that preserves current conditions, in which the State needs to just accept the total loss of the Triglavian occupied stars and accept a Triglavian presence in many of their other systems, then she is very likely trying to create conditions for a Caldari total defeat and negotiated surrender. Ceasefire now only benifits the aggressor, and very likely ends with them launching a second wave of invasions that push the State even closer to the brink.
If I had to guess, given the time she spent working directly for the Clades, I would suggest that the more likely scenario is the latter, in which Malitia actively seeks to help the Triglavians subsume the State in the hope that she will be granted a position of authority over the Triglari culture that would be created in such a moment. But I must admit that it is certainly possible that she is simply acting out of wistful naivety.
Either way, if the goal is for the State to remain coherent and powerful there should never be a ceasefire between the Triglavians and the Caldari until such a time as the Triglavians completely vacate the territory which they have invaded.
May God preserve the State! Glory to the State!
Chapter Master Lok’ri, I know you are learned and intelligent sort.
So, I shall be polite in imploring you to cut the hyperbole. Any serious attempt at such an action would cost trillions of lives on both sides, and effectively cripple both. Its the exact reason we do not see the Amarr Empire doing more than the general basics of antagonizing the Republic in the current politic climate. The Empires are just too large to effectively subsume one another without extensive, and horrifying displays of extermination to cull out numbers, and even then, the chances of it succeeding now? Unlikely in the extreme.
The Invasions stopped both because the Collective seemed to have achieved a set of objectives, some specified, some not, but also equally, I’d wager, that they may have come close to the point of crippling their own internal economy to PUSH OUT the primary garrison forces of all four empires in the systems they have taken. While I may not be privy to such information, that has been the impression I’ve garnered in my dealings.
I’d also put forward the wager, that they know that they cannot perform such a string of feats, in part or whole, again, against any of the empires, together, or alone, as there is no longer the previous element of surprise.
I was not being hyperbolic in the slightest. A pattern of one sided invasions followed by ceasefires where you take a bite out of your opponent one region at a time, recover, and do it again, is exactly how an entity of Trillions can be dismantled. This is especially true if you can maintain a condition in which the battlespace is entirely in your enemies’ territory.
Furthermore, the idea that contemporary states have grown too large to subsume eachother is dangerous thinking that leads to blind spots. They are not. The only reason the Matari Rebellion survived to become the Republic is that the Gallente Federation is and was a threat that the Amarr Empire cannot safely engage. Both the Gallente Federation and the Amarr have too much ability to deeply penetrate into eachothers territory, and both have enough mass that The War, should it occur, would be both unpredictable and mutually devastating. But it’s not that their scale makes such a thing impossible, it’s that neither has a sufficient technological advantage or mass advantage to make the fight one sided.
So long as the Triglavians have more control over filiaments and wormholes than we do, they are an existential threat that can always have the initiative. I do believe that you are right that the pace of invasion stopped because they could not sustain a longer campaign against the resistance they faced. The campaign bogged down everywhere except Caldari space, and their losses to EDENCOM were substantial.
But if we get back to our own internal CONCORD bickering and leave them alone to recover, then they will be able to develop another offensive punch unimpeded. And they will then use it when they are ready, most likely against the State since it proved the weakest last time.
The only way that we can prevent such an action is to make the territory they already occupied difficult to chew, so that they are expending their resources defending it and not developing another invasion fleet. Anything less than an ongoing full counter offensive against the facilities that we can hit is asking for a repeat of exactly the same scenario that we faced two years ago.