Everything you said is true
2 Likes
You put four drones one on each virgin veld and have one combat drone out.
Afk mining for an hour or two easy.
But I thought you hardly used it anyway?:
So if you hardly use it anyway because anything else makes more ISK, why would you care if mining was removed? Surely youâd just keep doing what you currently do.
1 Like
I care because I took the time to acquire it for how it is now, not tomorrow. How often I use it for mining doesnât matter.
This doesnât lead to a stable game environment, though. Thousands of players have trained into thousands of doctrines that were OP at the time that desperately needed nerfed. As much fun as armor T3 fleets were, having one behind literally EVERY ship undocked in low sec, waiting on a titan bridge, was not a healthy game environment.
Iâll fully admit to being out of the game too long to have a concrete opinion on what exactly the best fix for the Orca is, so I wonât waste anyoneâs time with throwing out my 2-3 year out of date bs.
But, a ship that is broken canât just remain broken because people have put time into training it. On the same token, that ship being broken doesnât mean itâs the only thing broken about the subject matter at hand. Mining in Eve has been very⌠bland⌠for a very long time. CCP has the tools now to do something much more dynamic, while at the same time leaving in an option for the people who just want to afk peacefully while binging their newest show on insert streaming service.
I think they should, and I think they should address a lot of the problems with industrial ships being completely defenseless pinatas as they have been for as long as I can remember, barring one or two ships in various iterations.
Well, I mean if we discount any mechanism, either of player agency or design, currently in Industrial ships to mitigate pews, then that leaves either make them combat ships that can also indy (reducing the utility of combat ships) or, and this is the billion dollar idea if you can think of it;
Come up with a way to make defense fleets viable.
Iâm all for this.
Right now, or at least when I still played considerably, they simply werenât in most cases, outside the large null blocs. Heck, even when Iâd try and bring along a command ship and a logistics ship and have reps on my orca, and watchlist and do all the ânullâ stuff when Iâd play around with the new guys in HS, it just wasnât a viable option, and only something I could really do because I had enough accounts to throw at the problem.
Comparing mining ships and the orca to battleships and dreads doesnât quite work. For one, the Orca is not the next level up from an exhumer it has a different skill path. Whereas the dread requires battleship skills before it can be used.
The other thing is that the dread has been nerfed several times to make the battleship (subcaps in general i guess) more viable. Theyâve had a massive tracking nerf and lost their drone bay. They have awful dps unless they enter siege mode where theyâre completely stationary for 5mins and cannot receive remote reps. The only battleship to have that are the marauders, which are pve boats.
So yeah, when a ship is frequently chosen over other ships in their own role, itâs indicative of a problem.
Dreads werenât nerfed to make battleships more viable because they have always been viable. They were nerfed because people in subcap ships would get hit by dreads. These people would then complain about dreads being too powerful instead of simply training and working to get their hands on one. People donât seem to realize, that often, you sell/buy from your ganker in this game. No one would say no to them, but instead they chose to have a little cheese with their whine and try to get CCP to change an aspect of their game so that the losers could win. They still couldnât and instead flocked to high sec for easy pvp. Not fun pvp. Easy. They then continued this nonsense for years while the people they lost to after the nerfs continued to proliferate capital ships. Now these same people are still in high sec ganking and complaining about caps unto this day. And youâre wrong on that. If something is frequently chosen it just means itâs better. The only way to make a game where things get an equal amount of use like you people want, is if you make things the same. Even then, something will be chosen over another simply because of its appearance. I bet youâd be there espousing a new term against such a human behavior. Calling it disbeautination or some nonsense. Also, donât call any boat a pve boat. You people defining things is whatâs ruining eve. Marauders are just better battleships like how t2 cruisers and others are better variants of the t1 ships. In fact, the recent nerf to them was because of a PVP reason. Not a pve one.
1 Like
To be fair, most dreads way back yonder still couldnât hit most subcaps on their own. It generally took a high level of SP, some tracking equipment and double webs for dreads to reliably hit most targets well. IIRC, the big capital gun tracking nerfs really came in when they added the rapid weapons, to make a clear delineation between cap guns and sub cap guns. But battleships were a fringe case where they were big and slow enough a dread could just about pull it off with a single web and scram on most targets.
Daichiâs position is also highlighting the importance of choosing an out of class vessel because itâs better than the vessels in class at doing the job, whatever the reason for it. In this, his position is correct. We donât have a whole bunch of random ships in Eve, we have ships designed to do a specific job. When one ship out of that class is out performing the ships in that class, that is not the same situation as just any given ship being a little bit better at any given thing than any other ship.
But youâre right on the people in high sec still complaining about caps, even to this day. Ha.
I have flown caps and never once thought they were overpowered. That was the losers.
Tractor beam OP. 
Nah, theyâre originally designed for PvE, but have been iterated on to make them more viable outside of missions because they were under used and over priced. Despite that, they havenât really lost their PvE nature. They are relatively lesser used in pvp.
E.g. Hacs get used about half as much as tech 1 cruisers. But marauders are used 1/5 as much as tech1 battleships.
2 Likes
Me and you will never be equal but you seem to think being the same isnât the same as being equal. Things can only ever be equal if theyâre the same.
Also, battleships were viable. Itâs not my fault the losers didnât want to spend the time and effort to be competitive or figuring another way out. Theyâd just whine about it like how they whined about drake doctrines or whatever other doctrine. Itâs just a bunch of losers going âCCP PLEASE!â instead of just playing the game and getting better than their enemies.
You are so delusional. No man is equal to another. Nor are they the same. Thatâs why if Iâm stronger than you and decide I want to overpower you when youâre unarmed I can. Nothing would be able to stop me regardless of what some man penned down on a piece paper that doesnât even know you exist claims. Youâre equal under the law. So if someone commits a crime and gets 10 years, so would you even if you are Dr. Fauci. However, the law has been unequal because men are not equal. Only a religious person thinks so because their religion claimed so. Yet, in reality, tranny men are outperforming the natural women in their respective sports strictly because they are not the same and therefore, not equal.
Thatâs not true though. People are not the same, but they can be equal.
People are more than just their physical strength. The worlds strongest person is not considered the worlds best person are they?
Infact i very much doubt that the worlds strongest person is even your favourite person in the world, let alone the worlds best.
You oversimplify things too much.
2 Likes
Capital ships are biggest nonsense ever introduced into the game. Many people I know in the game have been saying this too all the time from Red Moon Rising expansionâŚ
Itâs how it is. No one is equal. To be equal is to be the same. And being equal is unbalanced because no where in nature is anything equal to one another. They might be the same species, breed, race, but even within their sameness, they are not equal. So to expect ships to be equal is to make the game lame, tame, and the same.
Clearly not though.
I can like two different people the equally but they are definitely not the same. And i can do the same with ships in eve.
Meanwhile the only way you can tell me who the best person in the world is is by ignoring the vast majority of what makes up a person.
Anyways, the same thing should apply to ships in eve. There should not be a clear best, especially coming from a ship thatâs not specialised for that role, and yet here we have that exact problem with the Orca.
1 Like
Iâm not talking about it being best in any one thing (even though it is for tank and capacity). Iâm talking about it being favoured for a job that other ships are supposed to specialise in.
And thatâs why itâs a problem. You complain that the game will be lame if everyone uses the same ship, but thatâs what happens when there is a âclear bestâ.
So CCP should (and do) make balance changes to prevent there ever being a clear best and people will fly a variety of ships.
Just because you think there isnât doesnât make it true.
Hence the coming changes, whatever they are.
2 Likes
The orca doesnât out perform a barge in mining. Best case scenario, itâs equal to a procurer using t1 strip miners. Maybe slightly better if you pour the isk into the drones.
You people are literally whining about a 2b isk ship that takes months to train into, not including fit, because you think itâs God level mining capabilities. Itâs not, and that shows just how out of touch you are with orca mining.
As for the example of sticking 1 drone each to new veldspar and going afk for hours, youâre full of â â â â . No highsec rock is big enough for that, unless youâre on a month or longer pull from a moon.
5 Likes
What these shitty little gankers donât seem to understand is, after mining is taken from an orca, you will need even more friends to gank one.
More tank since no mining drone rigs. Morons whine for things without thinking it through.
1 Like