There surely must be a ’ but the NPC would have beaten the guy anyway’ point…hard to judge just exactly where. The one time I got ganked it was ganker 75% and NPC 25% and I’ve no doubt the ganker would have trashed me anyway without the NPC. I’m simply saying that when you get down to below 1% it becomes questionable. 100% NPC gets rightly recorded as a ‘NPC Kill’…yet 99.99999999999999% somehow becomes a ‘solo’ kill instead. There surely has to be a point at which it is a little absurd.
Yes there is! For CONCORD.
If CONCORD is on the kill, the NPCs would have beaten the guy anyway. In any other case there is no such point, as the guy could likely have warped off at any moment.
The percentage is just a function of “how long was someone able to tank NPCs”. The longer one is able to stably actively tank or passively tank NPCs, they are racking up damage points in the NPCs favor on any KM and the ratio of all damage is going to be more and more heavily in the NPC’s favor. So the percentage does not really say anything about “how close was an NPC to breaking the player’s tank”. For a player to increase their percentage, they would have to do the same: prolong the combat so that they can deal more and more damage, and give enough time for the other player to repair it so they can rack up more damage. But they are incentivized to do the opposite when solo: a player wants to make combat last as short as possible so as to remain vulnerable in a brawl as little as possible.
If you look at the actual damage numbers by the player and compare them to the fitted ship’s estimated EHP, you can get a sense of how deep into armor/shields the person was tanking NPCs, plus the amount the victim was able to actively repair, and therefore estimate how much effort the attacker had to go through. But it is not a perfect science.
Again, it is because the percentage isn’t a good metric for making this decision. In the unrealistic example I created above, the attacker got through 100% of the ship’s EHP completely all on its own but only 0.1% of all recorded damage.
I’m not sure there’s any good metric/heuristic for making that distinction, honestly. Which is probably why zKill doesn’t try.
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anyway, here’s the example taken to it’s logical conclusion
no sabres = 2 alive avatars
some sabres preventing them from jumping away = 2 dead avatars
Literally the entire argument we’re trying to make here is that killing someone = directly causing them to die, and that directly causing someone to die is completely independent of the damage you (personally) deal
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Ah, so you’re saying it cheapens the solo tag… which is kind of ironic since you’re actively trying paint other people’s kills as being lesser than your own… as if what they are doing is little more than whoring on NPC kills.
In fact, people have brought it up multiple times now, and I’m still not entirely sure that you understand it -you do realize that killmails calculate damage percentage of total damage dealt, right? So, if someone is getting chewed on by the rats for a while, and then someone else comes to kill them, it won’t just calculate damage percentages based on the damage done since that player started shooting at them. It will calculate them based off damage done since… since… well, hell, I don’t know how far it goes back (i.e. since the last tick, since warp, since the last session change). But, that doesn’t undermine my argument. Here, let me show you what I mean.
Here we have a kill mail of a paladin with 30.2k raw HP that takes 842k damage before dying. The players on the kill inflicted 57.4k points of damage, which was almost enough damage to kill him two times over* and that had a DPS that was many times his active repair rate. In fact, they were probably putting out many times more DPS than what the rats were doing. Regardless, it should be clear that they were more than capable of killing this guy without an assist from the NPC’s. However, in spite of this, the entire fleet was credited with only having done 6.8% of the total damage inflicted. And that’s because the killmail was calculating damage done by rats before they even showed up on grid.
*Note: Applied damage has already been reduced by the victims resists, thus we need to compare it to raw HP, and not EHP. Always make apples to apples comparison. Paper DPS should be compared to EHP, while applied damage should be compared to raw HP.
Hmm. I feel like I could have probably explained that better, but I’ve done enough ■■■■■■■ around and need to be productive. So, please explicitly state if you understand what people are trying to say, don’t understand it, or if you are disputing that killmail damage calculations work this way.
A game whose population slowly sinks, is doing something right.
tell me about the better 20 years old space mmorpg
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A game lasting almost 20 years?
LOL.
Also its clear the current generation has problems handling a near full loot PvP MMO.
Sadly, the carebears have won.
No there isn’t. That is what everyone is trying very patiently to explain to you.
Dear lord. For once just listen and think about what people are telling you.
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Even if you allow that some vague point like that exists, it is still vague. zKillboard’s “Solo” tag is clear cut and definite. It means “There is only one player on this kill.” Someone who believes that it means “One player dealt all the damage” or “One player dealt x% or more damage” doesn’t understand what the tag means on zKillboard.
If another person wanted, they could write a zKillboard2 and use a solo tag with a different set of criteria, in which case that solo tag would carry a different meaning on that site, but it would still not escape “misclassifying” kills as long as there are people who disagree on what a solo kill is. Squizz had to draw a line somewhere, and a kill with a single player on it seems a reasonable line to draw that is easy to program for.
If you want to judge whether a kill is a solo kill by your own criteria, you look at the killmail, which zKillboard makes available to you in its entirety, and you make that call. Thanks to the tag, you can immediately discard any kill that already has 2 or more players on it with very little effort and then judge what’s left on the remaining factors that are important to you.
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I honestly don’t understand why people keep wasting their time. It’s very obviously not worth it.
she is kinda brilliant
i consider myself pretty smart but im not yet sure if troll or not
There is a strong drive to never be, nor appear to be, wrong or incorrect. Understanding through that lens, all her interactions are indeed genuine, even if viciously self-defensive.
I suppose telling them they werent welcome might have backfired then?
In the haste to tell them to go back to “other mmo”, it seems most of them… did.
I dunno. I dont understand how acting like a jackass and trying to disguise it behind a veneer of “testing the mettle” of would be players didnt work out in our favor but somehow, it didnt.
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They’re not acting like a jackass, they’ve been playing the game the same way for decades: dunking on the idiots. Better, actually, if you consider that so many highsec pvp activities are now dead.
EVE’s glory days were even more unforgiving than the modern era.
With barge buffs, wardec changes, modern intel networks, well drilled super umbrellas, ansiblexes, etc. the carebears have never had it so good.
And yet despite doing a watered down version of preying on the weak we’ve been doing for years, suddenly it’s problematic and toxic and should be stopped?
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Im not the one saying that.
The people playing EvE are the ones saying that.
“The carebears won”. Sounds… whiny. Defeatist. As if there was some battle and his side “lost”.
And of course if there is in fact no problem happening, then why the whiny sadposting about carebears?
Its a logical fallacy and you all know it. “Da ebil carebears” cant simultaneously be the best source of entertainment and also the worst thing to happen to the game.
They cant be “idiots” for you to “dunk on” and also be dasterdly clever masterminds working a shadow campaign to undermine your game.
Play EvE how you wish within the confines of the rules, but the biggest whiney carebears in the history of the game are the ones pretending that theyre out there mining salt “for the good of the game” and crying when, inevitability, that ■■■■ is nerfed.
Why any subset of gamers ever thinks their playstyle will ever matter when set against the bottom line always confuses me. Youre happy to run potential wallets out of the game because it makes you laugh… and you go shocked Pikachu when the people who own it tell you to stop.
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Isn’t Fortnite PvP? I guess there’s a sanbox mode - I never played it but my nephew does - but I’m pretty sure there’s PvP, it may be instenced or whatever but I doubt your statement about “the current generation” is correct.
Plenty of youths love PvP in games. Only a lot of them do not like to lose in-game items that they paid for.
Makes me think of something: Would you think EVE players would like to lose the SKIN along with the ship they lose? Just want your opinion, I have no point on that.
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I read that on this forum a lot of time. “Maybe EVE isn’t for you” or " Go back to playing WOW" and other nasty remarks. People think it only stays in the forum but the person to who it is said would take it literally and think “why waste my time with these people? Obviously I’m not welcome” I guess many didn’t and many weren’t but they did go to other MMO’s and found their game.
It will forever remain a mystery.
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Fact.
And yes, Fortnite have PvP and skins. Also I do not think Fortnite players lose the items they pay for.
That’s why I hesitate to go omega, even if its in a few months. I don’t really want to pay for ships ( in money or time ) if I know I will lose it. I know it’s PvP but losing the ship is too high a price for fun. I don’t think it’s fun to lose a ship I paid for, in time or money, Time is money anyway.
Maybe if the insurance reimbursed at least 80% of ship and modules but it don’t so it’s useless.
I think that losing a ship they paid for is what make potential players stay way from EVE.
I think so too, and not only potential players but those who have played a couple of months and realize that they’re making one step forward and two steps back as far as in-game progress and if the progress is measured by the number of ships lost then I can understand why players leave or simply enjoy the game as an Alpha.
I used to pay for Omega until I realized it didn’t matter whether I was Alpha or Omega, my game progression was one step forward and two steps back so I stopped paying for it and am having fun as an Alpha. I still have lots of ships I can pilot as an Alpha but once those ships are all gone I’m not buying anything, whether with money or time or whatever.
I decided: no more ships no more playing… and yes, no more foruming on this forum either.
It’s only fun for the one who blows you up. The fun in EVE is very one-sided and if you don’t like it then you’re a carebear and you shouldn’t play EVE, EVE is for big guys and you’re only a little girl anyway, go play My Favorite Pony or something 
It’s just a bone thrown at players. 10 or 20% of the unfitted ship, if that, and GTFO. It’s not even worth it.