Nowhere on that graphic is retention shown, it displays how satisfied customers are with games compared with critics scores.
These are not the same thing.
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Ok, you keep saying that. When they keep adding the changes i suggest, i’ll be here stacking them up in a list. Btw, did you notice the massively positive feedback on blackout, and the huge impact it had on the economy?
One of the main findings of the study was that there was a correlation between retention rate and player reception in the first months of the game. The three titles that fared best in initial player reception and retention were GuildWars2, Planetside 2 and Final Fantasy XIV.
A broken clock is right twice a day.
Especially when they regurgitate suggestions that have been around EVE forums for a long time.
But being a 2003 player you would know that… Which clearly makes you a liar about that.
Well, I got suckered into mentioning the troll a couple times, and that’s my limit. The validation of having people take him seriously enough to engage with him is all he’s looking for.
EVE faces many challenges over the coming years, but I’m pretty sure competition from some incoherent babbling wannabe won’t be one of them.
For anyone who wants a more serious look at actual EVE data (you know, the sort of thing Naari can’t link), try this:
A Long-Term Study of a Popular MMORPG
PS: He’s also referencing slides from this presentation:
GameStatistics MMORPG Survey
which is based on a survey of what people say about their gaming preferences/activity rather than actual retention/churn statistics. People tend to self-report a lot differently than they actually do.
(Edit: Apparently flagged for off-topic, on a thread with New Player Retention/QoL in the title. Although I admit it is not specifically on-topic as regards to skillpoint caps, but I believe that area was already covered in my previous posts.)
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So you believe you are the only one who have suggested a “blackout” to somehow increase risk in null? Maybe look at the “Main AFK cloaky thread” and the one before that.
No, you are not so special, that CCP are looking at your individual posts thinking “My GOD! Why have we never thought of that…!”
Correlation does not imply causation, it is a relationship of some kind that suggests areas for further study; it may be direct, it may be casual.
I already refernced this earlier. I tried to tell them david ( a ccp member) did research on this in the early days of eve, but they did not listen.
Retention rate metrics for many mmo’s (even many at a single study) are all over the place. In general they fall between 30-40%, and those who are exceptionally good are above 50%, and those exceptionally bad are below 20%.
That may be true to a degree. There is a very detailed break down of the effects of retention rates by game component you can read here:
I do believe that david touched on similar aspects of this article.
Overall retention or new player specific retention; both are valid metrics.
Using the former metric, World of Warcraft, that’s down to 10% of peak IIRC; meanwhile Eve is sat at about 30% of peak.
No, you put some random quotes and threw out a highly common name.
See the bottom of that very short study that’s over a decade old and thus wildly out of date in the gaming industry… That’s some actual referencing. You could do with reading.
I think it is pretty hard to define exactly what type of player that is. It is a complex mixture of traits, including maturity, nerdiness, OCD, competitiveness, cooperativeness, and sociopathy.
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In general, I think that slide is a bit outdated.
Wildstar is dead and ESO has been revamped. Combined with it having way too little data in order to say anything about any global trends within the gaming industry.
So not sure how relevant that slide was in general.
I log in to ESO once a day to get my riding skill up and get the daily reward.
Am I being retained?
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I laughed a bit, cause I do exactly the same 
Gotta increase those rookie numbers on that horse!
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As expected that slide isn’t anything to do with retention. It’s player satisfaction out of 10 vs critic rating out of 100.
So… It’s nothing to do at all with anything Naari claimed.
@Naari_Naarian Love how you deliberately cut the bottom of the graph off to hide the axes label to try and pretend it was anything to do with retention, let’s add that to your list of outright lies.
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Did you actually read the article that is attached to that graph?
It goes through the pro’s and cons of how elements common to many games affect retention.
One of the elements he lists is what Eve is famous for, the bit you dislike.
Emergent play
Pro: arises out of systemic depth, simulation, etc, and usually interacts with game breadth as opposed to depth. Don’t think having one chess system; think having many smaller systems that are individually not as deep but which interact with one another in surprising ways. It can be surprisingly cheap to implement a system like this.
Con: It can also be brutally hard, particularly to balance, and only some designers seem to have a knack for it. It can lead to enormous community outcries, and your game moving in totally unexpected directions.
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Yeah, Naari misunderstanding/misrepresenting some source is nothing new.
In that old discussion, he tried to use the Quantic Foundry survey to argue that competitiveness and destruction is a low motivation for people to play games. Except, he totally misunderstood the numbers and the survey actually listed those factors as some of the main motivations for young males.
So it doesn’t surprise me, that he is trying to shoehorn any data to try and support his views.
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The picture was copy pasted here, Also the sentences just prior to it were also. No one is lying about anything.
its actually on track still. What happen was they were claiming that the skill point changes would be bad for the game because of the “players” that are here (that want to abuse people and keep eve overly complex).
their argument was that "eve was the last game for people like them there for ccp should care for them more then the other what ever stupid amount of people wanting to play.
The graphics etc being posted are proving that the changes will help the game, and they are getting salty about it, trying to find ways to squirm out of the metric data.