The summer has passed, but Eve has not returned to 40,000 concurent users

[Daichi_Yamato]

Resource wars was obvious to me, abysmal space was my anti-eve. But what was so bad about the others? What to you is eves pve problem?

[Tecros_Shtemerk]

@Ghost_O_Mo

CCP used to know how to retain us.

CCP retain PVP players and big corporations by spending investors money, now there is no more fresh money from investors and even PVPers and big coorps leaving Eve Online.

[Yiole_Gionglao]

They’ve added all sorts of new Fanta tastes to the shelves, and yet those pesky Coca Cola drinkers don’t flock to them and stay subscribbed. What’s going wrong…?

See, I even gave feedback about it to CCP Darwin, and he said he was sending it to the relevant team. Dunno if ti’s gonna be used for anything at all, ever, but here’s the thing:

Devblog: Preparing For The Future – Retirement Of Captain’s Quarters & Twitch Integration

This is a bit off-topic for the thread, but I gather from this comment that you either haven’t tried or didn’t like the Abyssal Deadspace sites. What would you like to have seen done differently there? My gripe is not about details, but the concept of the content itself. Abyssal sites, like Burners, like FOBs, like… everything sicne Incarna, are like this: [imagen] 1 very difficult task with 1 and only 1 solution. Whereas what I, and many mission runners love from missions is that they…

CCP can add the wrong PvE for a decade and get a repeat of everything they’ve done since Incarna: minimal usage and no meaningful impact on retention. Maybe they should just have asked the PvErs while they still were a thing.

[Tecros_Shtemerk]

CCP never have real game designers only had wannabe space warriors like rise, falcon … who did not understand basic mmo mechanic.

[Tecros_Shtemerk]

This is type of author/designer CCP desperately need …

disclamer: this is not comercial this is just example.

[Ghost_O_Mo]

Here is the fundamental problem between the pvp and pve community:

PvP players consider the “real loss” incurred by losing a ship to be the quantity of time one must spend performing grindy pve to get another ship.

That punishment gives our losses and wins meaning. It’s like running laps because you lost a football game. Yes, pve is my punishment for losing… it’s the reason I feel sick when I lose… because I just lost 6 hours of work.

A pve player plays for only that… that which I consider to be penance for poor technique. They have no interest in meaning or competition, but rather in grinding for the hoarding for isk.

Pve improvements mean almost nothing in this case because they’re accepting the grind for a payoff in incremental advancement in their mission to hoard isk and special items.

I don’t think there is a pve advancement that can save eve because the vast majority of all mmos are about grinding to hoard.

I think the PvP model is a wise differentiator for CCP which they’re systematically choosing not to pursue.

So I cry about it on the forums.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@Yiole_Gionglao

CCP can add the wrong PvE for a decade and get a repeat of everything they’ve done since Incarna: minimal usage and no meaningful impact on retention. Maybe they should just have asked the PvErs while they still were a thing.

What?

Fobs, resource wars, abyss space, burners and pretty much all the pve made in the last half decade were inspired by player ideas…

@Tecros_Shtemerk

CCP never have real game designers only had wannabe space warriors like rise, falcon … who did not understand basic mmo mechanic.

So you don’t know?

Are you just one of those people that complains but doesn’t actually specify why or how to fix anything?

[Ghost_O_Mo]

We are leaving because all the mechanics for war and scuffles in the area of space where everyone plays have been retired.

Re-introduction of scuffle and war mechanics would get us underway again.

No other dev has ever had the courage to run a game like this that allowed “state of nature” and inter player injury.

This game is special for its PvP. It’s pve was always just for penance.

[Daichi_Yamato]

What? That was quite meaningless.

[gnshadowninja]

Honestly times are changing in gaming, regardless of what CCP add or change people don’t want to do 20 jumps for content, people don’t want to sit behind their keyboards for hours waiting for a fight to possibly happen then if it does, takes 12 hours to finish due to tidi.

Eve worked when people weren’t so spoilt by instant gratification.

[Ghost_O_Mo]

I’m an instant gratification baby.

I used to run Akiainavas… and I’d undock into a ball of baiters, canners, noobs, and war fleets daily.

I used to play before work every day for about 30 minutes… and usually got a fight or two.

I never liked null or low because it’s slow and painful and lacks the “bar fight” feel.

This game was amazing in that capacity. But we were so busy saving the noobs that we eliminated most of what really made Eve special.

I can still can bait, mind you… but it now takes all day to get a fight… and my willingness to spend the day waiting like that just isn’t there.

We need scuffle systems… and they just aren’t there anymore.

[Daichi_Yamato]

@gnshadowninja

Eve worked when people weren’t so spoilt by instant gratification.

It was also easier when there was twice as many people in the game and watch lists worked.

[Tecros_Shtemerk]

@gnshadowninja

Eve worked when people weren’t so spoilt by instant gratification.

Ooooooh those spoiled consumers, they do not want to send money to CCP for precious and perfect Eve Online …

[Nicolai_Serkanner]

@gnshadowninja

Still waiting for the massive influx since the fix

Ask our favorite politician. He should know where they are, considering he so urgently warned ccp to remove wardecs or else.

[gnshadowninja]

@Tecros_Shtemerk

Ooooooh those spoiled consumers, they do not want to send money to CCP for precious and perfect Eve Online …

Correct, unless your living under a rock the gaming culture have turned to games such as Fortnite, PUBG and Apex Legends because they provide instant gratification and rewards in less time.

@Nicolai_Serkanner

Ask our favorite politician

[Noragen_Neirfallas]

Off topic but did you catch mobadders eulogy?

[Anderson_Geten]

@Nicolai_Serkanner

Ask our favorite politician. He should know where they are, considering he so urgently warned ccp to remove wardecs or else.

@gnshadowninja

Remember guys it was wars that was seriously effecting the player retention/count.

Still waiting for the massive influx since the fix

Wardecs were hurting player retention.
This does NOT mean that removing them will INCREASE the player count. You need to learn logic. let’s make a child image because that’s what you need :
There are holes in a bucket. If you plug one hole, it won’t magically fill the bucket again - it will only reduce the quantity that goes to waste because of the hole.

You can keep crying as much as you want, what you are doping here is “strawman fallacy”, and that is just a proof of you being dishonest and here to troll. NOBODY said that the modification of wardecs would increase player count - only a bunch of dishonest bittervets who can’t adapt.

@Daichi_Yamato

It was also easier when there was twice as many people in the game and watch lists worked.

Watchlist was a pain in the butt because it forced you to keep your cap toon logged on constantly. So yes, its removal reduced the number of players CONNECTED at the same time - but it did not modify the number of players ACTIVE. All it did was remove inactive players - and spoonfed bittervets who could not stand to have to hunt their targets.

[March_rabbit]

@Anderson_Geten

You need to learn logic. let’s make a child image because that’s what you need :
There are holes in a bucket. If you plug one hole, it won’t magically fill the bucket again - it will only reduce the quantity that goes to waste because of the hole.

It seems Logic is not one of your strongest abilities.
I will use your own example (don’t forget that your bucket has some incoming stream of water too).

We have two evidences.

1. CCP have chosen 1 hole to be plugged immediately.
2. After plugging this hole water did not start collecting back.

Logic says the hole which CCP have chosen to plug should be the biggest and the most hurt hole of all existing. Else patching would not need such urgency will it?
If CCP was right with their choice then water should have started to collect back. But it isn’t. This can mean some of following:

• there is many holes like this one (talking about size mostly) and plugging this one has too small effect to be detected.
• this hole was too small to have any effect on leaking
• this was not a hole at all (say cavern looking like hole from outside but not leaking water).

Now let’s be generous and take former as true (the hole is actually big enough). Now to be chosen to be plugged first the hole should have one of following:

• be easily pluggable (actually: the most easily)
• have real effect on leaking.

Again: if we don’t see latter it should be former. Which again leads to suspicious about real reasons for this “rescue the water” operation.

[Anderson_Geten]

@March_rabbit

This can mean some of following:

Or the stream of water is too tiny to be able to fill the bucket again with all the holes there are.
So no, this does not mean one of the following you give. You are making a false choice fallacy, by limiting the possible choice to a subset arbitrary chosen.
So logic is definitely not one of your abilities. Just because you plug a hole does not mean the bucket will magically becomes full.

@March_rabbit

Again: if we don’t see latter it should be former.

Or it means you can’t see it. For various reasons, for example you not having the necessary senses to sense it, like a blind guy trying to see pink or an idiot (let’s say it’s me because I’m not trying to insult anyone here) trying to get a joke.
I’m not even telling CCP was right. I’m saying this kind of shitty argument is completely dishonest and just adding salt to your own bitterness. CCP did not say YOU would be able to notice it. CSM said that there was a correlation between people being wardecced (in HS, without structures) and people leaving the game - which I already agreed is not a causation - and an easy way to check if wardecs were a real cause for people leaving the game is to see what happens to the retention rate when CCP removes the wardecs.
So no, you won’t be able to see a difference. Because your opinion on the topic is irrelevant, as much as your ability to make logic - or my ability to understand jokes.

[Dracvlad]

@Daichi_Yamato

Fobs, resource wars, abyss space, burners and pretty much all the pve made in the last half decade were inspired by player ideas…

I will hold my hand up as calling for harder PvE content in hisec for groups to do together. As for FOB’s I rather like them.

I like Eve because it is complex and in some areas hard.

---

In terms of war decs it is too early to tell and simply using active player count is not accurate. The momentum from that change takes time, in that part of the retention of players is based upon social activity in a corp of like minded and similar players. I hope CCP are analysing the right thing here.

@Anderson_Geten

Wardecs were hurting player retention.
This does NOT mean that removing them will INCREASE the player count.

This is correct in my opinion, by the way that does not mean that I am right, I think that is the case. CCP will have to say whether that is true or not.

Growing the game needs something more, I wonder how many people we can get back who were driven from the game by war decs. I hope that we see some movement there. But it takes time because when I left Eve once I was away for 9 months while doing all the content in ESO three times with ex-Eve players.

Anyway…