Bet they escalate form an alliance of their own and perfect an antibumping tactic and maybe bump your alliance out of the way… Maybe hire mercs to remove your structure in hopes some other small fry puts up another one in hopes they can continue to thief it up.
The actual content of a mining dispute is, at its core, what makes Eve great.
It’s a real mining dispute. Sometimes I think people miss the remarkable depth of the game because they’re caught up with it.
And Saeger is right, the rules have been delivered as nerfs but the end result is that small groups can’t do wars anymore… not effectively.
Stations are expensive, wars are expensive, and now you have to be able to field a structure bashing fleet.
The nerfs have really increased the size and gravity of the large groups when it comes to fighting.
3 Likes
Once again this will create the ability for large null sec entities to come in high sec wipe everyone else out put up their own stations and CONTROL Empire Space is that what the people who really live in High Sec want?
You are telling me something is preventing them from doing so now, besides the crap value of HS moon ?
You have a good imagination.
I am not arguing for the little guy, nor would I. I am stating that argument cannot be used to justify a suspect-flag mechanic which will benefit the big guys more. I don’t like mechanical protections like this for something that has no viable rationale.
Place buy orders in the system for both raw and compressed ores, and see if the “thieves” sell to you. If they do, congratulations, you save hours and hours of mining youself plus “your” ores are in your hand.
Unless the ores are listed for sale in the first drop off station, at some point in the value chain starting from the ores there is hauling involved. Shipping out of the system, shipping in missing stuff (for industry jobs), shipping out end products, etc etc. If you want to gank this is where you gank. Ganking or bumping the orcas is good and all, but you are going at the lowest end of their value chain. First investigate what they do with those ores.
ISK-wise though I recommend outsourcing them to mine “your” ores for you so you can do other stuff in the meantime.
While I like the idea of letting other guys do the mining work for you, I wonder why you would bother setting up and fuelling the Athanor to get the moon field in that case.
There should be a way to retaliate against those ‘thieves’, and bumping or ganking isn’t enough. A suspect timer would allow players to fight for their ores in high sec without Concord blowing up your ship. And for miners who prefer not to fight on their own, a suspect timer would also allow you to hire other people to fight for you.
I wonder how you expect people in high sec to deal with ore thieves if they are unable to declare war on the thieves. Do you think it should be normal gameplay for miners to resort to bumping and ganking in order to protect their moon ore? Of course there is a group of people that enjoys bumping and ganking miners, but I don’t think such a playstyle should be the only way to retaliate against thieves.
I agree with everything you said, and I wanted to highlight this part here. For years and years people have begged for some kind of “skin in the game” or objective to wars, but it just feels like CCP has made all the wrong choices here.
I’m totally for objectives, win conditions, and even structures but it all has to come together and make sense. Sure it could be fun for some small group to ship up in their mosh-mashed kitchen sink fleet, until the moment someone mans the guns and they flee.
The fact that you can be war immune in another corp and use ACL’s to continue to take full advantage of the structure is off-putting. These structures being destroyed are out of reach from a newer group wanting to try wars so even if they wanted to blow up the structure that these war immune players are using - they couldn’t. I don’t mind war immmnity, but the fact that it’s just a big gimmick when they can use ACL’s to get their cake and eat it too isn’t right.
This just leaves the large groups and serious multiboxers to reasonable cleanup these structures. We get paid to do structure based combat almost weekly and it’s really shitty that it’s one-sided. I will admit that it may be because of who we are and we blueball ourselves, but I just don’t see where other smaller groups are scrapping over these things either.
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The other issue is how heavily CCP has decided to favor the defenders. I understand it’s a double-edged argument here depending on what side of the attack / defense you land but these structures are made for conflict, no? I shouldn’t have to either work from home, have no job, or deprive myself of sleep to generate content.
Reducing the reinforcement to two timers while allowing the structure to be vulnerable 23/7 would be a magnificent start. The defender can then choose the timer for the final reinforcement, which the attackers would be able to see if he’s even able to do the final timer simply by hacking the structure.
The things we have in place now have the potential to be something that is good, but CCP needs to get their head out of their ass and put some finesse on it.
“mum we only fielded ten times more ships that the corporation has members and they don’t fight”.
■■■■■■■ idiot.
You blueballing is you killing content in the game. “CCP is wrong with the content”. Nope, you just are making a job out of a hobby and people don’t want to waste time on that hobby when you decided to push them off.
You are clearly telling people there is no room for small corp with structure in the game. So people in small corp and who rely on structure will just leave the game.
I don’t know if you’re in goon, test, PH or whatever. This is the behaviour that is making Eve rotten : risk adverse people who only attack people when they are sure to wipe them off without a loss. You are removing the fun from others, and thus the content that could provide you fun.
And now you’re crying that “structure bashing is annoying” ? Open your car door and clean the road with your facial hairs … That will make more sense.
If you want people to fight back while you bash their station, then go low/null sec, plenty of people there willing to put a fight to defend their assets. Adapt or die people say?
Oh I’m sorry, precious! Here have an astrahus and put it wherever you like! Remember to tell people they are playing the game wrong if they try to remove it! It’s such a shame that people could do something SO mean such as trying to mess with your fun in a video game. Gosh darn, this is just upsetting thinking about the social injustice that goes on in this game!!!
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Please give me a break. We’re a large group and we often contend against other large groups. This is a ■■■■■■■ MMO. If you’re a smaller group getting your ■■■■ pushed in by a larger group why not try to be social and make friends? Find people that share common interests as well as mutual enemies and work together. Stop being so weak, it’s embarassing.
1 Like
You are the one complaining about the boring of it.
I explain you why your attitude is stupid.
Sorry my dear, you can’t make friends when pushing them with a force they can’t withstand.
You complain about the boring, I tell you you are at fault for it being boring. You MADE IT boring. I don’t care about the game being wrong or bad or whatever. You made a choice that removes the fun of your game, you decided for it to become boring.
No I’m complaining at how cumbersome it is. With 3 timers set in either some ■■■■■■■■ like AUTZ or something that alone is enough to snuff contest.
We bring our usual armor or shield fleet accompanied with a large logi chain. If someone has an issue with it and doesn’t want to fight, that’s on them. We’re doing our thing and they are more than welcome to gather friends to fight us. I’m making a point on behalf of the smaller groups here and the fact that structures in highsec are currently ■■■■■■ up.
But there is no reason to fight you when they can’t do anything. You don’t want them to fight you, you want to shoot them to entertain yourself.
YOU made it this way. You are the one preventing them from fighting back, as of your choice.
As of defending structures, there is no reason to do it in HS. It takes less time to fund it than to destroy it - and defending it is a waste of time because the defender can’t attack the aggressor, so it’s aggressor choice to either blue ball or not engage and then make defender lose time - unless defenders are with friends already in the system, and the structure is fitted for combat, and ships are ready.
So the only viable way for small structure owners is to make it less interesting for you, that is make you lose your time by shooting priceless structures - meanwhile they place another one somewhere else. Any other effort is a waste of time and preparation. And that’s BECAUSE you blueball them. Your choice, your consequence.
1 Like
Wrong. You don’t know what you’re talking about. There’s plenty they can do - it’s just much easier to complain and quit. Owning and keeping a structure is a luxury not a right, so when someone comes to kick over your castle you can either find a way to deal with the problem or accept the loss and rebuild quietly. What you aren’t entitled to do is whine and cry that some boogeyman came and did mean things to you.
Make them more expensive and worth defending. Strange concept, huh?
Damn, you’re right. I forgot we’re invincible when we’re on-grid shooting at your structure, my bad.
You literally have (2) timers to get your ■■■■ together to defend a final timer. If you can’t muster that with how spread out you’re able to set your timers… then again, you probably have no business owning one.
Wrong. It’s A WAY, not the only way.
I wouldn’t say I’m a loser even if no one shows up to defend. We get paid by clients to destroy these things all the time. Yeah it’d be cool if someone showed up to defend it, but I’ll gladly take the isk for popping it.
All of this comes out to a grand total of: You don’t know what the ■■■■ you’re talking about! Enjoy your participation trophy, please join us next time.
2 Likes
Learn what a "right " and a “luxury” is.
Owning a structure in new eden is a right ; having fun when crashing other people’s structure is a luxury.
You are the salty one here. I tell you why YOUR choices made YOUR game boring, I’m not telling MY game is boring.
Why ? To stop you from crying out that you are not having fun ?
L2R
Wrong. It is the only way that makes sense when fighting blueballs.
Just because you feel entitled to fight them, does not mean they are willing to lose their time.
Yes you did. You said it’s boring to bash structures (that I agree with) and you’d want people to show to have some fun. I tell you, your activity being boring is the only defense of the defender, they make you lose your time. If people funded you, then they lost more money that the structure is worth, and in a war of attrition that is the best choice for a defender that is blueballed.
The only defense of the defenders, is that for the 2h you prepare for a full structure destruction, with 50 alts, they could do 502100 = 10B isk in incursion with the same resources.
Wrong again, friendo. You’re right that owning a structure is a right that everyone is afforded. Keeping that structure is a luxury, because I at any time for any reason can decide that I don’t want you to have that structure anymore and remove it from space.
Fun is subjective, so while you think you may be depriving me of fun - you’re not.
I’ve proposed ideas on how to make it better, that doesn’t mean I don’t enjoy it. I just wish people took ownership of what they had and.
Not quite sure what you’re saying there, but the statement you quoted stands.
Wrong. This is the only way that makes sense to you… someone that clearly lacks it.
I don’t have a sense of entitlement to fight them. I have a wish to fight them. I’m here offering suggestions on how to make that happen, not crying that it’s my right that I get it.
You are the one complaining about it. I don’t think I’m depriving you of anything.
You are making suggestion to force them to fight you, while they don’t want to because of YOUR choices.
So yes, you are expressing a sense of entitlement to fight them while maintaining your current blueball policy. And I tell you people who don’t want to fight you will still NOT fight you, because it’s YOUR choice not theirs that makes it so they CAN’T fight you.
Trying to force people will only result in people leaving the game. The same people who are putting the structures you don’t lose time destroying, that is the content you are creating. That it the meaning of
You are rotten because you are complaining about the consequences of your actions.
You want content but don’t accept to be that content.
You are just like people in NS complaining there’s nobody to fight their 100-man blueball when they enter renter’s space.
People just dock up and wait for you to leave the constel. Maybe if you are lucky one rorqual will remain on the field and if it’s badly fitted you can kill it or call for a hotdrop.
And then they “propose” stupid ideas like force ratter to defend their system when a fleet enter else they lose all their assets “to reduce income from rorqual” while actually it’s just them killing the content.
Or gate campers complaining that space is empty when there are 10s of them at a gate (I been part of that, that’s a typical cancer even yesterday I refused friends to participate in such a waste of fun).
If you don’t provide content, you don’t deserve to get content. If you don’t accept to lose, you don’t deserve to win. If you blueball, you kill the game. Sure you win, but then that’s pyrrhic victory - you just don’t realize it.
That’s why wardecs were killing the game. That’s why long range capital jumps were removed. That’s why CCP is adding aggressor structures to the wardec system - so that you need to bring content when you are the aggressor.
You feel entitled to go backwards and get more content while providing less content. That’s the level of stupidity of your complain.