Once you put your moon mining structure at a moon, you pretty much own that moon until someone removes your structure.
So yes, you can own the moon by placing your structure next to it.
And yes, you have ownership of the roids: everyone mining your roids gets logged.
Well, anyone can mine those rocks, but since people mining your field show up on a log, you can ask them to pay a small price for the ores mined. The only thing missing is a way to retaliate in high sec against thieves showing up on those logs.
A suspect timer for moon ore thieves was just an idea that popped up when I read this thread and I guess you can convince me a suspect timer for moon ore thieves is a bad idea if you come up with some good arguments. But saying that the moon cannot be claimed isnât going to convince me.
The issue did not exist before moon mining was allowed in HS. It was somewhat mitigated by being able to wardec any corp(s) that were mining on the moons you had structures at, leaving only NPC corp miners to do this without repercussion. CCP then changed the wardec requirements to corps with structures necessary for wardecs, further exasperating the scenario in terms of the owner of the structure.
Ownership is defined in this game by possession. He who held it last is the recognised owner. You never actually possess the asteroids.
Does a POCO owner also get the right to now claim ownership of a planet?
But does a player possess the loot of wrecks that they havenât looted yet? You didnât hold it yet, but if people steal it from you they go suspect. Why doesnât this happen when people steal your moon ore?
A POCO owner doesnât actually create the PI goods, the poco only transports the goods into space. Even without POCO the other players making use of that planet could produce PI goods and send it into space, although a bit less easy.
A player does create wrecks when they shoot NPC ships. Those wrecks wouldnât be there if it wasnât for the player.
A player does also create a moon ore field. That moon ore field wouldnât be there if it wasnât for the moon mining structure.
So no, POCOs do not claim ownership of a planet while a moon mining structure does claim ownership of a moon.
The ownership of a moon might be valid in SOV space. But I think the Empires would take you to task about claiming ownership of stars, planets and moons in their systems.
Shooting NPCs is a rewarded act on behalf of the Empires and Concord, with bounties and looting to the pilot. The wrecks however can be salvaged by anyone.
This thread is interesting. I wish there was a more clear way for you to retaliate against these thieves. I agree that they should be able to steal from you, but it should come at a consequence⌠one that you yourself or hired help are able to bring them. I donât think CCP should create a scenario or mechanic that makes the rock exclusively yours, but again gives you a clear outlet in which you can allow yourself proper justice.
@Brisc_Rubal is a CSM member that is good at listening to your concerns and presenting them to CCP. I have tagged him so he can read the OP and then read this reply here. This is something that effects any Highsec resident that is wanting to anchor these structures or use, and is in the best interest of a healthy highsec to see worked on.
Athanors can be a hefty investment and I think itâs wrong that YOU have to invest in the structure and the only real way to defend yourself is to either harass them with bumping or gank them. Iâd rather see the âthiefâ gain a suspect timer if he isnât on the structures ACL. What this does is creates player conflict with clear avenues in which you can protect your asset and interest without having to dedicate an alt for ganking and such.
What this will also do is make their ownership and use more valuable - something to fight over. Currently why do you need to fight over the right to own one when you can roam around and leech? This further creates a dynamic of âminers with teethâ that are able and willing to defend their structure. It turns into an actual business interest that they are able to defend.
I still submit that a suspect timer is not the way to balance this.
Giving mechanical protections to the owner isnât a good solution.
It is artificial.
So if you want retaliation to those that show up on the logs and you donât want to be able to lock everyone out and make it truely Private⌠whatâs your idea for this method of retaliation?
Salvaging a wreck is different than this in my opinion. For one, ninja salvaging isnât plagued by bots or multiboxed AFK orca fleets. Itâs something that needs to be addressed.
I understand your points. And I empathise with the structure owner. But you have to consider the rationale for making someone suspect for taking something that nobody can claim ownership.
Make Athanors or even all Upwell structures require charters like POS do/did.
Have the mechanic / rationale be that the owner has paid or invested in the right for that chunk of rock to be his and can dictate through the ACL who can legally and take advantage of it without repercussions. He can charge groups or individuals to activate the mining drill, but of course it will be up to him to make it right by his clients and provide protection against those suspect miners.
And that just paves the way for HS moon rental cartels. While it seems to benefit the little guys, the big guys will take it and be backed with mechanical protections. No thanks.
Are cartels invincible? Sure a small fry might be able to take an Athanor down by himself but I propose some solutions:
Pay mercs to remove the structure of said cartel
Form a mutually beneficial business agreement with another party where profits are shared and common interest is there to attack / defend threats.
This is an MMO. We should be engaging with each other to accomplish goals that are on a grander scale. I would consider trying to own, run, attack, defend a moon cartel to be on a grander scale than casual Highsec miner that plays once a week. Should everyone be entitled to have their cake and eat it too? Shouldnât good things come at a cost of hard work and dedication? I mean accomplishments feel better when itâs not handed to you⌠otherwise itâs just a participation trophy.
Iâm not disagreeing. What I am saying is that this situation is exactly why wars are necessary. We can wardec a corp to attack a structure but cannot wardec to defend it? Actually, it isnât even that. There isnât another situation quite like it.
Iâve notice a lot of individuals affiliated with Null Sec pushing this suspect timer for moon ore very overtly. It sounds like they want to return to Empire Space, wipe out all the structures from those who would have a hard time dealing with them, putting up their own structures then charging a fee to get on their access list. So NO Iâm against suspect timers for moon ore. Deal with ore thieves another way and stop asking CCP to baby sit you
As somebody not affiliated with ns I endorse the ability to retaliate in a reliable manner that requires equal effort as those who are repurposing floating space debree
This sentence makes no sense.
You can claim ownership of the roids . People do it just here just now.
What people complain is that ownership is not present in the game.
Now I donât think roids ownership would be a good idea. I rather think, FIELD ownership would be a good idea. IF you are not on the ACL of the moon, using a miner module/drone makes you suspect when you are in the asteroid field.
I know some people will tell me you donât OWN the refinery, but at this moment I tell them you need to stop doing drugs.
The last year of changes has pretty much been âscrew the little guys, reward the big groupsâ swath of changes⌠You canât be a wardeccing Corp anymore only an alliance⌠So now the bears are gonna be effected and they put their foot downâŚ
Why would you think you would gain any traction now for the argument of the little guys protection?
For the OP, the best recourse of action is to form an alliance with other like-minded corps. If you want to fight a hostile mining fleet, the best course of action with the mechanics right now is going to be to bring your own fleet that will out mine the pirates.
And with more players, you can then also field your own bumping ships to kick them out. Eventually theyâll just give up.