Was I talking to you?
This forum is open to all participants, yes.
Oh sorry, I think the confusion stems from me expecting a certain basic level of human decency from people and assuming everyone has at least a shred of empathy. But sure, let’s go straight to Hitler.
I cannot be too sure, but it does sound quite a bit like you think these Covid 19 vaccinations are 100 percent effective in both preventing acquiring the disease and in preventing the spread.
Or is it that you simply believe it will end lockdowns 100 percent despite being less than 100 percent effective in a medical way?
When we’re discussing code of ethics that came straight out of the consequence of Hitler, then yes, we go straight to Hitler.
Of course they’re not 100% effective but clearly the more people that get them the better the chance for herd immunity.
Is it your belief that profit motive has no bearing or that it is simply overshadowed by the goodwill of pharmaceutical companies?
The idea of a medical proceedure OTHERS do for YOU is abhorrent. Polio vaccine for example was given to kids to protect those kids, not other kids. I don’t know if you favor enforcing vaccinations or not, but that would indeed be fascist. Some vaccines, including these, are risky for some people to get. Not everyone can be vaccinated without quite a few deaths directly from it.
But when you said “everyone” I suspect you meant “most people”.
Only if their effectiveness is great enough AND, just as importantly, the effectiveness lasts long enough. I don’t think anyone has clear numbers on those.
Something I read suggested to me we will be needing vaccinations every six months to keep up with mutations. I have a terrible feeling we are never going be “safe” ever again.
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Its simply amazing how far you will go to deny these vaccines having been rushed is a significant concern.
You asked me how I felt you were being dishonest. That is but one example. Here in Japan the rate of childhood thyroid cancers have gone up and so has congenital hypothyroidism in children on the North American west coast. The reason is obvious; the 2011 nuclear disaster and also completely irresponsibe hiding of information by TEPCO Electric. But since no one can trace individual cases of childhood thyroid cancer or congenital hypothyroidism directly to radiactive Iodine and caesium from emissions from the melted down Fukushima reactor, they basically pull a Bart Simpson and give us a “I didn’t do it! Nobody saw me do it! Can’t prove anything!” and dodge responsibility.
We have ALL seen dozens if not hundreds of cases of that sort of irresponsibility from individuals and corporations alike and we are not going to forget about it just because its some other profit motive corp this time.
Also, your failure to even acknowledge me for warning you about the sanity of a certain poster here speaks volumes. Someone being fair would have thanked me for that help.
The only reason approval has come so quickly is that sufficient R&D investment was made that the manufacturers could start work on one stage of the process before the previous step was officially complete.
No amount of money can buy an accurate simulation of say, an effect that will occur after a three year period for example. This is rather obvious.
What is the optimum number of years? IDK. But at least 3 years sounds reasonable for myself before I am going to get a new vaccine against a disease that may well cause me no symptoms.
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Indeed. That is the very place. This is known as being hidden in plain site. Or as I said before, BURIED.
Just look at the link. Concerns? You gotta be kidding me. Dead children are not a “concern”. Its a fatal error. Its evidence of malpractice. Its proof of the very real dangers of any and all medicines. Its a freaking tragedy. And they call it a mere “concern”? Its the word they use through the whole page.
And they give the Cutter incident a mere three paragraphs. And whats in there?
This case, which came to be known as the Cutter Incident, resulted in many cases of paralysis.
No number. Not even a ballpark figure. And no mention of how many DIED! Are you friggen kidding me??
WaPo says 40, 000 got abortive polio, 51 were paralyzed and 5 died. And I have seen worse numbers on other sites so I guess WaPo was being conservative.
Not sure why the disparity between CDC’s 250 cases of polio and Wapo not having any number like that, but WaPo is being a LOT more clear and detailed. Surely you can see this. CDC is downplaying a freaking disaster.
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Let’s not forget about Pandemrix and Narcolepsy, that one is still fresh in peoples minds. Approved in the EU, not in the US.
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There is something seriously wrong with you if you think any of this is “tyranny” comparable to Hitler.
Nonsense. “A medical procedure others do for you” is standard practice with vaccines already.
Not everyone can be vaccinated without quite a few deaths directly from it.
Very, very few people have a legitimate medical need to not get the vaccine. It would be perfectly fine to give them an exemption and they almost certainly would be exempt from any mandatory vaccination plan.
Its simply amazing how far you will go to insist that they have been rushed in any way that creates a hazard for the people getting the vaccine rather than for the vaccine manufacturer’s shareholders.
But at least 3 years sounds reasonable for myself
Why? Are you basing this three year number on expert knowledge of particular effects that require approximately that much time to show up, or have you just picked an arbitrary “that sounds like a while” number?
And how many people would have died or been paralyzed by polio if there was no vaccine? I bet it’s way more than 51/5. Even in this worst case scenario we were better off giving the vaccine and accepting the deaths.
As one of the few in here who actually earned the right to put “Dr.” in front of my name, I find the amount of ignorance, hubris, conspiracy belief, and outright stupidity by such a large amount of the population throughout the world startling even after practicing my profession for over 35 years.
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As someone with such a grand claim on the internet to be some sort of “Dr.” without even a claim of being a medical doctor, you sure have not added a single drop of substance to the conversation.
In over 20 years of posting on the internet I have scarcely seen such a useless contribution by one who claims to have so much knowledge. For someone who complains about stupidity and hubris, you have outdone anyone here on both counts. Congratulations.
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What vaccine is given to others only for the sake of society but not for the individual??
What vaccine are people forced to get despite not wanting it?
As long as you are clear on that point.
So you equate the death of ordinary people with the financial loss of the rich and actually wonder why anyone would bring up HItler in response to your posts???
Because while I can imagine an injection that causes problems only detectible after 3 years, I feel sure its a rare enough thing to warrant the risk vs. my potential to get seriously ill and possibly die from Covid 19.
Can you give me a better number and an explanation why?
This is a complete non-sequitor. I am not advocating against vaccines. I am simply pointing out that vaccines are not so safe that you get to dismiss people’s unwillingness to take certain vaccines out of hand.
That’s your opinion. From where I am sitting its not worth the risk to children to give them this vaccine EVER since they are not at such risk of death from the disease itself. As for healthy adults I feel a primary reason they are even getting the disease is for having garbage for a diet and lack of exercise. Its part of the reason our livestock also get sick easily and so need to be pumped full of anti-biotics.
Here in Japan its incredible how little effect Covid 19 has had. And while you can fairly congratulate them on mask wearing, hand sanitizing and social distancing, few are pointing out how these people eat…probably because your modern westerner is freaking clueless about healthful food and nutrition to even have that aspect as a question on their mind.
And in closing, I am flabbergasted that you have offered zero comment on how the CDC just brushed past so much on the Cutter incident. Since you cannot be indignant or appalled by their downplaying, I have to assume you think they are being fair and above board with that. Astounding. Its like they slapped you across the face and you thanked them for it!
Not the point. I simply have no idea why you felt the need to point out you have a database after I told two other people they need citations for their claim. You were not involved. Nor did you provide a citation on the claims.
Further you said you provided a citation above, but without any further explanation of what that citation was, I have to admit I have not even bothered to search for it.
Hell, since you put no quote in that post, and responed to the thread rather than a person, I am not even sure if you meant that for me.
You can’t expect to give a vaccine to a couple, the male is 53 years old, with no child, and, the engagement in marriage is delayed for 9 years, and requires a religious marriage, due to interference against other forms of marriage, and other forms of psychological warfare, and trying to divert with mental illness, and the degree of it, compared to others, more sick, who need the vaccine, and already have children, and try to cause problem to the couple who was not married, and got confirmation for marriage to be possible, only after the vaccine, due to war and other wrongdoing, intended and sought to be executed against them.
No but no.
And yes, they should go to another country for security reasons, and yes, it is against their human rights, and yes they can take precautions against those vaccinated from contracting the virus from them, because masks don’t protect others, but only oneself.
Additionally, even if those vaccinated wore masks, or children, while they don’t have to, since they don’t have to work, and that it is more complex for them, even if it would protect them more, they would not prevent the virus or disease if they did contract it while vaccinated to be spread to others.
The only difference is that those vaccinated may get less reaction to the virus and disease when they contract it.
Additional vaccine will be require to battle the increasing effect of the mutated virus, which, will make more people more sick, faster.
Those without vaccine getting a child will have to protect it for 1 or 2 years after the birth, and, until of age for the child to get the vaccine.
It’s currently over 16 years old only.
So, the risk of the child getting infected is more great, and will be more great next year again.
108M cases, 1.7m new cases Jan 20, 2021
60.8M recovered
2.39M deaths
108M / 7.8b
108 M divided by 7.8 b people = 0.01384 x 100 = 1.384% .
Ah yes,
if the mortality will increase from COVID-19,
and variants,
to over what it was,
when precautions against it were made to look like if it was only the same death rate as from other causes,
which precautions were so to prevent increase in contagion,
and increase in mutation rate, and increase in the pandemic spread,
instead of trying to prevent death from it,
and lower the infection rate from it,
then, yes, it will be worse, and more than 2.29M people will die from it.
–
2.9M people is less than
0.01% of people on Earth, which is 7.8 million people deaths.
It is more than 0.001% of people on Earth, which is 780,000 people deaths.
It’s 3.171 times more than 0.001% of people on Earth, 780,000 people deaths.
0.01% of people on Earth is 2.689 times more deaths than we currently have.
Also, it is not much use to take it out of proportion,
if it is not going to cause more death.
–
18.5 births per 1,000
The average global birth rate was 18.5 births per 1,000 total population in 2016.
18.5 / 1,000 = 0.0185 = 1.85%.
–
Death rate: 7.7 deaths/1,000 population (2020 est.) Definition: This entry gives the average annual number of deaths during a year per 1,000 population at midyear; also known as crude death rate. ~ Nov. 27, 2020
7.7 / 1,000 = 0.0077 = 0.77%.
None of them, not even the covid vaccine. But in all cases the protection given to other people is a significant factor.
What vaccine are people forced to get despite not wanting it?
None, unfortunately. Many of them should be mandatory unless you have a legitimate medical reason why it is unsafe for you to receive a particular vaccine.
So you equate the death of ordinary people with the financial loss of the rich and actually wonder why anyone would bring up HItler in response to your posts???
WTF? That is not at all what I said. In fact, the whole point of what I was saying there is that the rushed development is not a problem because the only risk is to shareholder value and shareholder value isn’t important. The lives of ordinary people matter far more, and they are not put at risk.
Because while I can imagine an injection that causes problems only detectible after 3 years, I feel sure its a rare enough thing to warrant the risk vs. my potential to get seriously ill and possibly die from Covid 19.
IOW, you have no justification for the three year delay except your vague feelings of “that’s about right”. No evidence, no expert opinions, only stubborn determination to continue to be a covidiot while other people get the vaccine for your benefit.
Can you give me a better number and an explanation why?
Once the safety trials are done and have demonstrated no significant risk. And oh look, that has already been done. Unlike you I trust the experts in the field, not my random opinions about what “feels right”.
I am simply pointing out that vaccines are not so safe that you get to dismiss people’s unwillingness to take certain vaccines out of hand.
And you are wrong. The risks are negligible, and the arguments against getting the vaccine are based on tinfoil hat paranoia.
That’s your opinion.
No, it is fact. The numbers in the polio case are clear, even with the manufacturing incident accounted for giving a flawed vaccine caused fewer deaths than not having the vaccine.
And in closing, I am flabbergasted that you have offered zero comment on how the CDC just brushed past so much on the Cutter incident.
What comment is there to make? It’s an isolated incident in the manufacturing process of the type that can occur with pretty much any product. You don’t stop eating because there’s an incident of food poisoning. You don’t stop drinking water because there’s a chemical spill somewhere in the water supply. You don’t stop breathing because there’s a factory nearby. Etc. I’m sorry if the CDC hasn’t given you public crucifixion of everyone responsible but it just isn’t that significant an event in 2020.
Its not a reason vaccinations are given. That’s just a recognized by product of widespread voluntary vaccination.
So you want this to change?? Looking below, I guess so.
And there is another reason why Hitler was brought up. Involuntary medical procedures are literally the stuff of fascists. Good luck finding a decent doctor who will participate in your involuntary vaccination program. Maybe you see if you can find some named Mengele.
Ok. Thanks for correcting me.
Their lives AND health are being put at risk.
So you bash me for providing a number I suggest for myself alone, but have no number yourself nor any sort of link or anything at all that provides anything better?
Wow. GFY.
Yeah…experts…right. They never lie or get anything wrong.
Remember when Trump’s doctor said Trump’s oxygen level was not dangerously low? Yeah. That was a lie.
And you haven’t heard what has come out about Louis Pasteur have you?
And it seems you already forgot how I just tore the CDC a new butthole.
I have seen everybody around me lie about something sometime. You know what I trust? Time and what I can detect with my own senses or suss out in my own head. You go ahead and put your faith totally in the hands of experts. See what it gets you one day.
I would say that in my present state, they are on par with Covid 19. The difference being that have not had a cold or flu in over a decade, at least not one I could detect.
But at least you realize that vaccines have a risk even if you refuse to understand how significant the test of time is.
The hell they are. You post a link and numbers and I will post a link and numbers that contradict.
Why do I even talk to you? The point there was not the incident but how the CDC buries it. The…experts.
Incidentally the wet market hype was another smokescreen. Believe me, this crap is selectively bred by human hands. The politicians and pharmaceutical companies don’t want you to know that because even YOU, good old expert trusting YOU might start to wake up and learn to mistrust as well.