I’ve seen much dumber fits than the freighter in OP, my favorite being an Occator with 6 expanded cargoholds. I bet that the person flying it either did not knew about its fleet hangar, or thought he needs to be in actual fleet to use it. I have a higher opinion of flat-earthers than of him.
Its still incorrect, in all cases. Even the Charon and Fenrir have 15 and 22k armor alongside resists. Even armor battleships dont have that much armor HP.
Its not as if they have zero armor resists, and they have plenty, even twice as much armor as most armor battleships.
So in other words, youre acknowledging that he may be doing it without supporting programs. And at the same time youre acknolwedging that you require extreme capabilities and skill.
Youre basically conceding that multiboxing does take skill and effort.
Im still confused. Why would this matter? what is the point of bringing this up? Pulsing your 500mn MWD to warp faster, is also not used as designed/intended, and you can call that a side-effect too, but you seem to have pushed that option while not mentioning that its a side-effect, and yet you dismiss the alt with a web by calling it a “side effect”.
Again, why would this matter? As long as youre not the sole provider of all freighters being sold, youre going to have to compete with everyone else who sells freighters, which means that it would benefit every single freighter selling business, including those who you are competing against. The net benefit is zero.
No, it comes from the way Orcas, Bowheads and freighters were designed. All three have the most HP/EHP from the structure.
And it is important, because you were talking about putting freighters on par with bowheads and orcas in terms of fitting. As an orca, bowhead and freighter pilot, im telling you, that if im looking for tank, which i would always do as i never have a logi alt, and only always a webbing alt, i would structure tank all three. And I do.
Adding mid and high slots/rig slots will do nothing. People who want to tank to the max, will still tank the structure. People who want to risk it and go speed/cargo, will fit other things that decrease the tank. The meta will not change, at all. We will always, and have always, gotten the most tank out of structure.
Wich is still a huge difference in effectivity compared to the other 2 Freighters, or in other words armor Freighetrs can still get way more out of it.
No, im saying that some are capable pulling it off. But i have no doubts that some will use some help to get it done. I respect it if ppl realy have this capabilities but that says nothing about how hard or easy it is and thus there is no measuring if it realy requires skill or just basic training.
I never said its a bad thing to do. Its a valid accepted option, but dont you think its designwiese realy poor to have some options available that are good but all of them are basically sideeffects?
That was meant as a joke. Sry if you understood it wrong.
Which is no reason why redesigns and reworks shouldnt take place. These ships could easily be changed to use the same armor/shield tanking system all other ships use and with it make use of all options available to it. The only point you can make is that it would make limited difference if the ships mostly stay the way they are now.
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Again, no. For example, a Charon and an Ark, comparing them with and without armor resistance modules, only get 5% and 10% increase to EHP.
From someone who claimed that a mere 33% increase in EHP is only something that is “Not bad”, id think that you would agree that a mere 5% is not “Huge” at all.
No, you already made that call. Let me jog your memory.
You already claimed that this was easy, that it didnt take much effort, etc etc etc.
And now youre coming back with “Hey, how can we tell if its hard or easy?” Are you kidding me?
But lets bring it back to the original comment that this string of arguments was based off of.
Does Multiboxing 12 characters without programs, take vastly more effort and skill, and is it harder, than flying a single freighter alone?
Absolutely I do. EVE is a game where every player can and will try to find more and more ingenious methods of maximizing survivability.
Whether it be the MWD cloak trick, webbing alt, or Grid-fu, the Developers are aware of these methods. They allow it because even though it wasnt intended, it was still an ingeneous side effect that is a valid gameplay mechanic, because its still working as intended.
EVE has always been player-driven, with much of the content made and created by players. In a way, these are here by design. CCP Designed the game so that players have the freedom to test things out. When things go too far, CCP has always been clear that they will be removed and consider it an exploit. But as far as these tricks go, they are in a sense, by design.
So, do you still think its poor design?
But youre not asking for an Orca, or bowhead redesign.
What youre asking for is essentially the same as saying “My Abaddon was designed as an armor tank, but we should really make it so that my abaddon can be just as good at being a sheild tank as a Raven”.
This is what youre asking.
Orca, bowhead, even the chimaera has more structure than sheild or armor. This is how they were designed. Giving the freighter more slots isnt going to change anything. People who tank it will tank it optimally, like me, with structure. The lazy will speed tank.
Tell me, honestly. How many freighters have logi support? How many people will bring more than 1 alt or friend to help? Because in both cases, structure tank will do more to help than armor or sheild tank.
Nevermind, that post was over 100 posts ago …
Anyhow, there is no point in giving freighter pilots more options, because freighter pilots already got what they wanted. The current freighter is what they asked for, and now - of course - others ask for more changes because they - as usual - fail to see where the problem actually originates from.
The game is fine. These people are broken.
No amount of changes will help, because they fail at realizing that the actual problem is them.
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Finds a killmail on one careless and greedy freighter pilot …
… declares all and every freighter pilot undeserving of sympathy.
1.) Killmails only give bragging rights, but not gloating rights.
2.) Nobody in the whole of EVE deserves sympathy for a loss regardless of who they are or what they fly.
3.) And judging a whole group, because of one pilot, well, that really should explain itself why it’s wrong.
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Judging by one pilot? Not even close. There are multi-billion untanked freighter kills on ZKill every single day, 24/7/365…
And yet another genius, flying a completely untanked freighter using faction cargo mods, worth 29.5 BILLION ISK…
And another one, completely untanked, carrying 20 BILLION in cargo…
And these 4 geniuses, all untanked, all in the same day, totaling 67 BILLION ISK…
Thank you for linking the kill mails. I wouldn’t know where to find kill mails in a million years if it wasn’t for your thread.
Now, none of the kills were done by you or to you. None of this is any of your business. Yet you talk about sympathy. Why?
Nobody deserves sympathy for a ship loss unless perhaps you’re trying to patronize somebody. But this isn’t what you have in mind. You state these pilots do not deserve sympathy.
And whose sympathy are we talking about and what good does it do? Yours, the sympathy of one player who is a nobody to the majority of EVE? Your sympathy is worthless.
Unless you’re trying to hide your erection over kill mails with a value, which exceeds anything your wallet has ever seen, must you be gloating and making a fool of yourself.
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Show me on the doll where the ganker touched you. I’m simply pointing out the stupidity and/or laziness of your average freighter pilot. Your sheer level of salt is delicious, by the way. Ad hominem attacks are quite tasty…
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I see from your response you’ve finally come to the realization that your sympathy is worthless.
You’re welcome. And have a like - it’s going to make you feel better.
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Perhaps not 100% on topic but this comes to mind again while reading all the comments. There’s a bit too many creepy basementdwellers in EvE who really thrive on grieving newbros, it’s a bit worrying really… Sure this yolo spacetrucker wasn’t a new player but my point is that new players get the same treatment all the time. Sure you can pretend you only love to hurt people ingame and don’t have the same tendencies irl, but I find that very hard to belive. A shame really, this is why every single player I’ve introduced to EvE has quit playing way too early. Character’s are starting out in HS right in the middle of grief-town.
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But this is a central aspect of eve.
What youre saying is akin to saying that people who play call of duty must be sociopathic serial killers because they choose to play a game where all you do is shoot and kill other people.
Eve is a game about conflict and pvp. Its not for everyone. And its not meant to be. If you dont handle loss well, if you cant use your brain and be careful, if you cant laugh and have a good time, if you cant understand the type of game eve online is and offer a good fight even when youre outnumbered, then eve is not for you and you wont last very long.
Theres nothing wrong with not being able to handle losses, just like theres nothing wrong with being turned off by first person shooters. Some people just like walking simulators and flight simulators.
But lets not confuse a video game designed to drive and encourage conflict, with real life. This is the sort of bs that politicians have been pushing, with all the blame going on video games as the reason for mass shootings and the likes. Its ridiculous, and so is your claim.
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Please don’t take things to the extreme end of the spectrum and don’t put words in my mouth… But if you just misunderstood me let me clairy my point by giving an example:
Just a few hours ago I warped into an operation conscious interruption site and watched a pretty fresh player struggling to bring down the cruiser npc. 25% left of it’s hull and a 5 year old russian character warps in, takes the loot and taunts the new player in local. Now there’s no way in hell this newbro could stand a chance vs the guy in a blinged out HAC. I’m guessing he wasn’t really after the loot, he just needed the new guy to fire at him so he could kill him. I find that kind of guy really common in HS and it’s really unfortunate that this is what greets new players… CCP should make new players spawn in null or something. HS has too many people like the one I mentioned above…
And just for the record, no I don’t see that russian guy going to town shooting people. But yea I’d bet he is an asshole irl though. And no, I don’t want to kill pvp in EvE, in case that gets thown into the mix.
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No.
He points out valid things you should be addressing by filling the holes you created with this thread.
From a neutral perspective, this thread makes you look like an asshole. From the perspective of someone who sees people whining about losses they believe are directly/indirectly caused by [anything but them], demanding the game to be changed for their limited cognitive capabilities…
… what a trainwreck of a sentence 
…
… well, from that perspective you come across as someone who is seriously pissed off about all the whining from people who lack any and all self preservability … and if that is not a valid term, it is now. : - )
Pissed off by people who are literally inferior to most other players who manage to stay alive just fine, without needing the game to be changed for them. Without demanding that tens of thousands of players have to deal with game changes that cater to a tiny, sub standard minority.
I understand you, QuakeGod, but you could do better.
Less anger, more rationality.
Please, with cherries on top. 
Admittedly, yeah, I’m kind of an asshole. Having said that, I just don’t get how these freighter pilots keep letting themselves get ganked in the same situations, with the same crap fits, day after day after day after day after day after…
You’d think they would learn by now…
Youre the one who said that we should stop “Pretending” that those who love to hurt people in a video game about hurting other people, also have the same tendencies in real life.
Big surprise, people who like to play Call of duty, also love to rack up kill streaks and headshots. So should we stop pretending that people who love call of duty and love to rack up kills, dont have the same tendencies in real life?
And, what, the new player in this scenario was incapable of making friends and running these sites with friends?
This is, of course, ignoring the fact that new players can hit the “Loot all” button just as quickly as a veteran. Veteran players have no advantage when it comes to looting a wreck. But EVE online isnt a 1v1 deathmatch, it isnt a queued team warzone, its an open world MMO. If youre having trouble going it alone, make friends and get help. Otherwise, its the deep end for you, and its gonna be a trial and error, sink or swim type of situation.
Have you seen the “eve online experience; play for free” trailer? The first words spoken are “this game… Youre not ready for it” . This is an official trailer from CCP. This is the type of game we play.
When i first began to play, i was in a drake navy issue running missions and attacked a baiting ishkur and died. I was taunted in local. Guess what? I kept playing and accepted my loss. Now i gank for fun. Some post tears, others are cool with it and we become friends. Sometimes i like to be an asshole in a video game, but i also help new players constantly both in game and on the forums. One thing does not define me, and i am mentally stable enough to understand the difference between a video game and real life.
Again, strong preying on weak, laughing at others pain is part of eve. Its not for everyone, not everyone can endure a painful experience and come out stronger for it. This game… Maybe youre not ready for it if seeing a single guy being trolled by a russian makes you think that an asshole in a video game means hes an asshole in real life.