Ungankable Hulk

[Glenduil]

I’ve reached my goal. a Hulk with 100,000 EHP with a shield regen of 146 points per second.

The Hulk is still at maximum yield with 3 Mining Upgrade T2.

It took a small CPU implant and one shield boost from an Orca, but it works.

[Hulk, Rock Stripper]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II

Dread Guristas Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Dread Guristas Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Dread Guristas Multispectrum Shield Hardener
Republic Fleet Medium Shield Extender

Ice Harvester II
Ice Harvester II

Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II

Hammerhead II x5

Simple Asteroid Mining Crystal Type B II x4
Ubiquitous Moon Mining Crystal Type B II x2
Modulated Strip Miner II x2

[Anna_Dyneaux]

[Glenduil]

And if you came on grid with that just to blow up my cute little Hulk, I would not even be mad!

[Glenduil]

I don’t mind watching my ships get destroyed by even bigger ships. But I’ll be damned if a few tiny ships are going to come on grid and ruin my fun

[Gerard_Amatin]

The ‘Ungankable Hulk’ would be a Skiff.

Your Hulk with 800M worth of fittings has barely 85k EHP and is most definitely gankable and without doing the calculations I would guess it’s gankable for profit too.

[Glenduil]

And yet years of experience has proven that I’m not worth wasting billions of ISK just to destroy my ships that I’ll replace in 5 minutes. High Sec just doesn’t have the roaming bands you keep telling me will destroy me.

But if you need to prove me wrong, go ahead and post the kill mails of all of the mining ships I’ve lost over the years. I give you my permission.

I’ve mined in both Null and High Sec. There should be plenty of kills for you to leak.

Just a few days ago, I flew a Proteus 35 jumps through Null Sec. I know how to survive in this game. I’ve lost ships, but I’ve never lost a mining ship.

[Glenduil]

Hey, maybe you can take all of that Null Sec ISK you’ve earned and become the Herald of change in High Sec. You can lead by example and gank miners with battleships! Marauders even! Ships with breacher pods!

You have trillions of ISK, right?

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

challenge for @Aiko_Danuja

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Glenduil

Hey, maybe you can take all of that Null Sec ISK you’ve earned and become the Herald of change in High Sec. You can lead by example and gank miners with battleships! Marauders even! Ships with breacher pods!

You have trillions of ISK, right?

Me?

I’m not one to enjoy the gameplay of seeing numbers go up so I spend little time doing so. I don’t have trillions of ISK, I have billions and would never think of wasting Dread Guristas Multispec hardeners on anything but a supercarrier if I finally got the ISK to get one or some high-end abyssal or escalation PvE fit which needs such resistances, if I decide to try that.

I don’t have ISK, I do however have some experience fitting ships.

And I would say adding Dread Guristas Multispec hardeners on a Hulk to survive ganks is silly, as it increases the likeness of getting ganked instead of reducing it.

Also

@Glenduil

with a shield regen of 146 points per second.

is irrelevant for everything except maybe in the context of NPC rat damage. I don’t think that was the topic.

[Malak_Starfire]

Not far enough, needs more abyssal mods

[Glenduil]

Haha yet I’ve been putting them on everything- Retrievers, Skiffs, Orcas, Bowheads, and Avalanches.

There’s always at least one person who comes forth to tell me that I’ll be dead by tomorrow.

The truth is that I don’t JUST rely on the fits to survive. I have other tricks as well.

@Gerard_Amatin

I have billions and would never think of wasting Dread Guristas Multispec hardeners on anything but a supercarrier if I finally got the ISK to get one or some high-end abyssal or escalation PvE fit which needs such resistances, if I decide to try that.

Carriers don’t exist in High Sec so Dread Gurista hardeners won’t help you there. I don’t play in Null Sec. My T1 barge in Null didn’t have dreads. It had a cheap ass fit. A T1 frigate with a scrambler would have vaporized it.

But I don’t use a Null Sec fit for a High Sec ship. Why would I? It’s not smart to let the fits cross over.

Go look at the killboard. Look at the Hulks that Aiko blows up every single day. None of them are fit like I fit them. It’s the reason she hasn’t blown up my ships yet. It’s not because I’ve made ammends with her and apologized for some of the things I’ve said to her. It’s not because of the money I’ve donated to her cause. It’s because I don’t follow YOUR advice. I don’t use Null Sec fits for High Sec ships.

@Gerard_Amatin

And I would say adding Dread Guristas Multispec hardeners on a Hulk to survive ganks is silly, as it increases the likeness of getting ganked instead of reducing it.

You keep saying that yet everyone is waiting on someone else to fund such an attack. It’s not worth it. Look at every single Hulk Aiko and her group have destroyed in High Sec and none of them have a fit like mine.

@Gerard_Amatin

it increases the likeness of getting ganked instead of reducing it.

zKillboard is proving you wrong every single day.

And frankly, if you knew anything about me, you’d know that I’d find it hilarious if someone did fund such an attack. I’m not afraid to lose a ship. So please- pony up the dough. I’m sure you’ll find plenty of mercs ready to take your money and destroy my ships. Oh and all my ships have the same naming scheme. Each Proteus gets the same name- Jaguar. The number after it goes up anytime I get it destroyed. I’m on Jaguar II now because I lost one to PvP. My Vindcator is also on Thunderhead II.

I can afford new ships. I don’t get all butthurt over it. If a squad comes along and uses an overwhelming force against me, I promise to try to make it as expensive as I can so that they lose more. Then I’ll replace the ship and increment the number and go right back to doing what I do.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Glenduil

Go look at the killboard. Look at the Hulks that Aiko blows up every single day. None of them are fit like I fit them. It’s the reason she hasn’t blown up my ships yet.

You might also have been lucky enough that you’ve gone unnoticed.

Making a ‘different’ fitting choice than other players doesn’t necessarily make your fit better.

In fact, when it comes to the profit of ganking a HS Hulk you increase the payout with your fit instead of reducing it. This is why I would never waste ISK on such hardeners on a HS Hulk and would fit T2 hardeners instead, simply because it’s more efficient, better. And with your luck you still wouldn’t get killed in those but have 700M ISK still in your pocket of those useless hardeners.

@Glenduil

It’s because I don’t follow YOUR advice. I don’t use Null Sec fits for High Sec ships.

I would not recommend null sec fits for high sec ships.

I am aware you’re flying in HS, which is why my fitting advice was tailored for HS fits instead of NS fits. In NS I wouldn’t even prioritize EHP at all, that’s more of a ‘what to do with leftover slots’.

[Glenduil]

I’m very public on my fits. But whatever. I understand that you can’t resist telling me how wrong I am all the time. Even when I’m not getting blown up, you’re telling me that I’m going to get blown up. It’s all about impulse control. I get it.

You haven’t figured out that I’m a non-conformist?

[Gerard_Amatin]

I’m not saying you’re going to get blown up.

I’m merely saying that the choice of bling hardeners you’re using on your Hulk doesn’t help you survive. And if anything, it increases the chance to get blown up as it increases the reward per EHP. After all, any ship can be destroyed, but in HS only you decide how profitable it is to kill your ship and you chose to make your ship a more profitable kill with those expensive hardeners.

But as you’ve been alive in that Hulk for a long time, possibly through luck or possibly by playing cautious enough, it is entirely possible that your Hulk doesn’t get killed in the future either.

But it would have cost less ISK to use the Hulk with T2 hardeners for the same or better outcome.

[Glenduil]

@Gerard_Amatin

I’m merely saying that the choice of bling hardeners you’re using on your Hulk doesn’t help you survive. And if anything, it increases the chance to get blown up.

You’re wrong. Absolutely wrong.

Not if you do it right. The whole fit matters- not just those mods.

Dr Cox - Wrong Wrong Wrong Wrong

[Gerard_Amatin]

Then feel free to tell me how I’m wrong, like I’ve been telling you how I think you’re wrong, instead of just telling you you’re wrong.

“The whole fit matters” doesn’t help much unless you explain how this whole fit makes you ungankable and how the bling hardeners help that strategy more than T2.

[Glenduil]

I have explained it. Many times. You’re too busy telling me all about “fits tailored for High Sec” on your CARRIER which can’t go into high sec!

You’re extremely wrong.

@Gerard_Amatin

I’m not one to enjoy the gameplay of seeing numbers go up so I spend little time doing so. I don’t have trillions of ISK, I have billions and would never think of wasting Dread Guristas Multispec hardeners on anything but a supercarrier if I finally got the ISK to get one or some high-end abyssal or escalation PvE fit which needs such resistances, if I decide to try that.

@Gerard_Amatin

I am aware you’re flying in HS, which is why my fitting advice was tailored for HS fits instead of NS fits. In NS I wouldn’t even prioritize EHP at all, that’s more of a ‘what to do with leftover slots’.

My fit isn’t just dreads. I don’t know how else to explain that.

Also, tell me- yes YOU TELL ME all about the times Aiko and her corp come rolling up into the system all piloting Marauders and Battlecruisers to destroy Hulks while they’re mining. I’ll would LOVE to hear it. Don’t be shy. How often do they do that?

THEN, I would love for you to do what I asked earlier and tell me how many zkills are on the zkillboard of Hulks getting destroyed that are even close to mine in fit.

Please and thank you.

[Gerard_Amatin]

That still doesn’t explain why wasting hundreds of millions of ISK on Dread Guristas Multispectrum Shield Hardener helps your ship live longer.

If I remember correctly your strategy was to stuff your Hulk inside your Orca. Is that what you’re referring to here?

If yes, then it still doesn’t explain why you needlessly blinged your Hulk. For your strategy it doesn’t matter which defences your Hulk has, and it might be equally effective but far more efficient to use T2 hardeners instead.

[Glenduil]

High Sec has this mechanic called a “Concord Timer.” This means that Concord will arrive and blow up the attackers at the end of that timer.

This means that, when fighting in High Sec, you have until the end of the Concord timer to blow up your target or you fail. If you’re the target, your job is to survive until Concord arrives. This is called, “Surviving the Concord Timer.”

Now a Hulk has an out-of-the-box EHP of 23,649 with my skills.

Now what most people do is barely, if at all, fit any shields or defensive mods on the Hulk. This makes it VERY difficult to survive the concord timer.

Even a T2 fit will only 44,542 EHP because of the massive CPU load attached to T2 modules. This allows an Overheat of 52,447

You MUST use Rigs to increase the ship’s CPU. The CPU requirements are so damn high that you need TWO CPU rigs. I don’t think that even a CPU implant will allow you to drop even one of the CPU rigs.

So using a 2% CPU rig, increasing the T2 medium shield extender to a Republic, and using 3 Dread Gurista Hardeners, you bring your EHP to 67,369. This is without an Orca and without overheating.

Even simply overheating the shields, I’m now all the way up to 85,021.

So already we’re well on our way to surviving the “Concord Timer.”

Add in the Orca and we’re now at 100,000 EHP with 146 shield regen per second.

Since SAFETY flies in on destroyers, you’re not in any danger of being attacked. Especially since there are usually other Hulks around with extremely poor fits. They will not survive the Concord Timer.

The way I see it, SAFETY overheats their guns so I will overheat my shields. I can keep them overheated for way longer than needed due to the Concord Timer.

If something bigger comes along, I can dock the Hulk inside the Orca even in combat provided that it’s not Alpha Damage.

And if all this fails and the Hulk gets destroyed, so what? I made sure that it would take something way bigger than a band of 5 or 6 destroyers.

I have maximum shield skills, maximum shield burst skills, maximum fleet support skills, maximum shield emission skills (for remote repair from the Orca), and almost maximum armor skills.

The only skill I have left that would improve anything is bringing Industrial Command Ship from 4 to 5… which would only give me another 1% on shield boosts. I’m working on it anyway for the other boosts it’ll give.

Your entire argument is this: “If you bling your ship, it’ll increase interest.”

Uhh… Tell me how many hulks with cheap fits die daily to SAFETY… How many? Every one of them they can find? Yeah thought so.

Do you know which one doesn’t get blown up by them? Mine.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@Glenduil

If something bigger comes along, I can dock the Hulk inside the Orca even in combat provided that it’s not Alpha Damage.

So yes, as I said above that is indeed your plan.

Bling hardeners do not help it.

@Glenduil

And if all this fails and the Hulk gets destroyed, so what?

‘So what’?

You just spent 700M ISK extra on exorbitantly priced hardeners for no gain. It doesn’t improve your yield and doesn’t improve your survival chance either.

On the contrary it reduces your survival chance as the loot per EHP of your ship has gone up, where with a good choice of tank modules it goes down.

These modules make sense on an expensive hull, not on a cheap one.

@Glenduil

So already we’re well on our way to surviving the “Concord Timer.”

Surviving the CONCORD timer can be done in two ways:

1. Get enough EHP that your fit becomes unprofitable to gank. You did the opposite
2. Get enough EHP that your fit requires impossible amounts of gankers to kill. Your 85k EHP is not even a fraction of such numbers.

So if that’s your goal, option 2 is not possible for a Hulk but 1 is, but you’re going the wrong direction with these hardeners.

@Glenduil

Your entire argument is this: “If you bling your ship, it’ll increase interest.”

Correct.

A T2 fit Hulk has no payout for gankers, your Hulk pays 350 million ISK in loot to your killers on average. That pays for a lot of Catalysts, way more than required to kill it.