I think it’s true that they knew exactly what type of game they wanted to make and it’s fairly obvious to me with how the survey is presented.
At first, sure. The ExtractShooter model requires a lot less set-up time and assets compared to other alternatives. Here we basically have like two character models, one gun, some equipment, a resource system, and basic objectives. It’d be a lot more effort to come out of the gate swinging with DUST 514’s 16v16 battles with a bunch of different dropsuits, guns, and vehicles. Also a lot more difficult to identify and fix problems with the base-line mechanics.
CCP have been upfront about how early a build this is, what they’re working with, and their intentions. They know people want DUST back and they’re making a conscious effort to get as much feedback as they can from people willing to drop $10-$20 to play an alpha test for three days.
I don’t really have any right to tell you how to think, obviously, but I’ve been involved with Star Citizen long enough to know that bare bones projects can grow a lot. Sometimes they grow larger than they were ever intended to be.
1 Like
TDM with objectives would have been much easier to create, and it wouldn’t have turned off a large portion of the playerbase with the idea that the game was going to be a griefer shooter. There is a big difference with how TDM can evolve compared to a more concrete idea like extraction. One is a stepping stone and the other is clearly a design choice.
This is not to say that it can’t/won’t change… Warzone took years to evolve out of Call of Duty that established itself as a variety of simple game modes long before it reached that point… so what I’m trying to say is that something like this is usually an end result, not the path to something else. Extraction takes much more work to make it compelling.
1 Like
When you start Vanguard client you see TWO WARNINGS of the game being UNFINISHED product IN ACTIVE DEVELOPMENT and a reminder the final product will not reassemble what you are about to experience.
These playtest are not for everybody and it is nothing to be ashamed of if you can’t bear the rawness of it and feel disgust.
To really help, you need to assume an openminded attitude and be willing to take it with a grain of salt and give CCP a benefit of doubt and look for flaws at the same time and report them in exhaustive and civil manner as soon as possible.
It is too early to hand out death sentence to EVE Vanguard yet 
The basic purpose of these early pre-alpha stage playtests is to polish core FPS experience. Nothing more. And the best testers for hunting bugs and stres-testing FPS game mechanics are seasoned FPS players who will pwn you in an eye blink
No need to fret about it. Just shrug it off and do your thing as best as you can - and learn from them
I totally suck at FPS and my EVE laptop is not meant to run FPS games despite being able to handle EVE Vanguard on lowest setting. As it does EVE Online. But I like playing them both.
FYI overall FPS experience is positive but playtesters already uncovered where EVE Vanguard FPS lacks and where more polish is needed.
- Some actions’ cooldowns are shorter than their corresponding animations leading to confusion and hilarity, sometimes frustration:
- deployable shield bubbles start protecting players before visual effect is fully seen
- melee animation takes longer than actual melee action which can be spammed instantly punch after punch
-
Flat looking surfaces on the map that are actually sticky/rugged and causing jagged movement
-
There are some UI issues like keybinding remaping not saving between game client sessions and one action toggle is not remappable at all - Sprint
-
Guns jamming or reloading sometimes after one shot on ~full mag
Yay! Pop a fizz everybody 
! We did it what was expected of us so far
See? Until all such issues are resolved, there is no point in adding more assets and map variety asap. The tests are intentionally kept short - 4 days for now to not get us too bored with same content every 3 playtests and to not burnt us out. With 3-4 weeks breaks for rest and reset. And dev time for going through bugs backlog and nuking them.
The more assets they would add before resolving basic bugs, the harder it would get to keep up with growing list of bugs at “Cartesian product rate”.
Next playtest is in less than 3 weeks: on February 22nd through February 26th. Lets hope for as many as possible bugs reported so far being fixed until then and as little as possible new bugs need to be reported in playtest. Because March will bring a new content in the form of mining activity prototype which will have its own bugs for sure
1 Like
Yah I can fell yall brimming with eager to call this project dead. They are lurking… They know who they are.
Darn bottom feeders of gaming society.
Surprised we haven’t had a Vanguard is dead thread yet. 
1 Like
I though this one is
1 Like
Not really. This thread started as an objection to the perceived path and more or less an exchange of what I think are better ideas. I have no reason to believe this game will be successful just because it took the “latest and greatest” thing. Brink is dead. Titanfall is dead. Quake Champions is dead. Lots of fps games die, and I see a mediocre extraction shooter competing against monster competition going the same route. Someone coming in and saying “well I heard it got good reviews” or “these people said they liked it” doesn’t mean anything to me.
1 Like
The real reason this project is dead isn’t because it will necessarily be bad, but because 99% of EVE players aren’t gamers, and don’t play any games outside of this one. Especially something as skill-intensive as an FPS game, which is untenable for boomer-aged people due to failing eyes and reflexes.
Vanguard might turn out to be a decent game in its own right, but CCP has no one they can market it to. They would’ve been better off finishing development on the dress-up room they started a decade and a half ago, instead of doing this.
3 Likes
See what happens I guess.
This is a good one. Valid point. Large swath of people in EVE are old. 
The target “playerbase” for EVE Vanguard are hardcore FPS players - not EVE Online players, especially DUST 514 veterans (who came from other FPS’es as well at that time). CCP Rattati (EVE Game Director) stated this already in an November’23 interview (starts ~@01:10:46).
CCP is aware of the FPS games segment having biggest user count of all genres and wants a piece of that pie. They knew that since at least 2006, when DUST 514 was conceived for PC.
EVE Online players are necessary atm to work out the initial shape of EVE Vanguard at its release time so it fits into New Eden well and fills some gaps - like raiding PI infrastructure - now indestructible golden egg laying goose. It already adds to pirate insurgency corruption (at 2-4% levels for the duration of the test) adding to suppression is planned for March update.
CCP hopes new FPS players will eventually get interested in what’s up among the stars of New Eden…
It already happened to many DUST 514 players back in the day…
I will keep my fingers crossed for this project
1 Like
Well they’re not going to come to Vanguard to get their fix, and especially not after CCP makes a bunch of “changes” to the game formula after its “alpha testers” provide a bunch of feedback regarding not enjoying this “griefer simulator” and wanting to be able to “extract in peace.”
1 Like
Not going to happen, the “grief” level in Vanguard so far is comparable to average gatecamp
And you can steal someone’s extraction ride… after killing him first… very eve I would say
[Edit]
plus there is 100% loot drop as a playtest bonus atm
We finished just one play test so far, and already the biggest feedback was “too much grief.” It’s so bad that CCP is already adding mining to the game.
This thing will come out in a pre-nerfed state with severely limited full-loot mechanics and probably some afterthought PvE mode attached that will contain 98% of the game’s player base that constantly complains about lack of fun and content (like in other survival games that have historically offered a PvE-only option).
1 Like
We’ve done two playtests already (in December and January, 8 days total so far) and I’ve not heard of any grief reports (except OP here) Everybody playtesting Vanguard atm knows it’s basically nullsec with NGSI (friendlies are green in Vanguard) and friendly fire.
1 Like
Wasn’t the dress-up room a fragment of the Vampire the Masquerade MMO that died in its cradle?
If the game is as successful as some people here want it to be, the “grief” level will be much worse. More people, more action, more loss. You don’t really notice this in EVE cause the galaxy is really big for 20k people.
1 Like
CCP needs to hire passionate people who know a ton about the game (EVE Online), and then expand it in common sense ways and fix all the issues as well. Then the players will come.
But being like lets make an FPS which are otherwise popular and then people will find out about EVE at the same time and then start playing that, ok? Thats some silly 4D chess. Just make interesting games and listen to the people who play them if you dont play them yourself yet insist on being in charge of it otherwise players will continue to leave. Thats all.
1 Like
They could have just copy paste dust 514 and make it for both pc and console
3 Likes
I’m amazed at how many people, especially on reddit, think extraction is the only viable option for success, and the only FPS that could possibly be fun for EVE.
The aim is sandbox shooter
Extraction is not required to succeed. Also, EVE Online is also an extraction docking shooter. To secure your loot you need to extract to some station
“As above so below”
1 Like