For some BP’s, like most small rigs for example, ME10 does absolutely nothing
BTW, @CCP_Paragon @CCP_Swift:
This was a result of:
Put that column back, please. People actually want to see how well the RNG is treating them. Yes, it was displaying only 100% or 0%. Your math was bad. Here’s the right math for you:
Quantity: 35,747
Residue Quantity: 20,060
Total Removed From Rock: 35,747 + 20,060 = 55,807
Efficiency: Quantity / Total = %
35,747 / 55,807 = 64.05% efficiency
add columns 3 and 4, then divide column 3 by the total. Ta-da! Efficiency!
8 Likes
I don’t really see many positive comments on here. Time for someone to get fired? 
InterBus courier missions are still broke.
1 Like
You do realize the changes they made, made mining and INdustry WORSE, not better right? Apparently basic math is not a skill you’ve trained. A % is based on a Number. IE if there is more ORE in a ROID, then then WASTE/RESIDUE amount will be LARGER.
YOu are not getting more when you do the math, unless you use t1 modules. You are in fact getting FAR FAR less then before the patch…
You should probably stick with something besides mining if calculating ore income is beyond you.
The only thing this patch did, was make Barges and EXhumers Easier to kill. And reduce overall mineral income from mining.
If their goal was to make industry better, THere would be absolutely NO point in adding a waste/Residue mechanic. It’s only purpose is to counteract the additional Ore amounts. ANd you definitely wouldn’t Nerf the procurer or the other Mining ships like they did.
No, the entire purpose of the patch was to continue to phase Mining out, by making it such a chore and HIgh risk, that no one will do it.
Enjoy seeing Basic mineral prices like Trit, Nox,Isogen, Mexallan, and Pyerite go through the roof. And good luck building anything.
2 Likes
can prove this false outright.
currently, without too much effort, one can quite easily get a hulk to 62k ehp. fit linked further up. that’s a sharp increase from previous potential. mackinaw is similarly able to reach such or higher.
depends on how the percentage is applied, and to which portion of the process. You are not wasting a percentage of what’s in the asteroid. you’re burning off/wasting a fixed amount equal to what you mine, at a percentage chance to produce that wastage/residue.
In this case X equals amount mined in a given cycle, Residue Y is equal to Mined X 1:1, with chance of Residue Y occurring being a Percentage probability modified based on module and crystals used.
Residue Y is not percentage modified, unless using type C crystals, which are designed specifically to burn down asteroids
1 Like
So, I started playing in 2006. Old timers told me about how the addition of destroyers ruined the game, just so you know how far back I go.
I’m at 210+ million skill points now.
I’m 45 years old in real life.
Here is my take on this change:
One nice addition are the changes in the graphics, they look great, keep them.
I took my Rorqual out for a spin to see what the bottom line was for me with these changes. I live in Null Sec, we have ONE system that has a level 5 industry rating (as opposed to say two or more, no, only ONE). In that system I have a faction fitted Rorqual with all relevant skills at either 4 or at 5.
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It took me YEARS to get the skills to fly a Rorqual and with these changes (amoungst other industry negative changes) I feel very cheated for the money I paid to CCP and for the time I spent (years) patiently waiting and skillfully playing Eve to get them where they are now. I feel that I am owed a place on the top tier of being able to make ISK via mining. I really feel that this is fair to me, but this is not what is going on with these changes.
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The amount of ore (in terms of volume available) did not change in said system, they are exactly the same (colossal ore anomaly). When I now mine I get about 60-65% of the listed volume I can see when I use a Survey module on my Rorqual. That means with all of the fancy number crunching what winds up in my cargo hold is 60% of what I got before this change. This means that neither I nor my corp-mates are getting the other 40% of ore that we used to get before this change. No one gets it.
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Due to the power/CPU changes for the Industrial Core module I had to spend an additional 500M to the Rorqual in order to have about 90% of the tanking ability I once had before this change. This puts the price for a Rorqual right around 10B for basic T2 fit and 12B for a faction fit. This change made me weaker for more ISK. The Risk vs. Reward for fielding a Rorqual is that it is now too much risk for too little reward. PvP types risk a 35M ISK combat ship for a shot at taking down a 12B capital mining ship.
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CCP states that the Rorqual is wanted to be used as a fleet mining ship, as in a ship capable of boosting other ships in order to mine more. This is not how Rorquals are used the majority of time (by majority I mean I’ve NEVER seen it). The reason is that the more T2 mining ships you bring into an asteroid field the more other PvP’rs will want to go through the trouble of destroying the mining fleet. So to me, the idea that one ship can boost many other ships is a bit of a false flag as no one gathers a lot of defenseless (as in no offensive weapons) ships into one area as it is too tempting of a target and is therefore not a viable strategy to do. It is just NOT done, even with warship fleets on standby (you know, the fleets that have nothing better to do than sit around not ratting, not taking a system but rather sitting around and watching a Rorqual mine for hours on end, that war ship fleet).
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My time. As in my real life time. This is now way more important to me than it was when I was 15 years younger. I now see where real life time must come into calculation when making changes that diminish player productivity rather than change it or improve it. I have not seen (nor have I ever seen) any decision made with this component in mind and this 40% reduction in what I get along with taking LONGER to get it is an absolute miss in terms of how I’m going to spend an hour playing Eve. I do not want to spend more time in Eve to do the same amount of things I used to be able to do.
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The proposed changes in compression, specifically the ones to make the act of compression take a certain amount of time and on top of that to make compression cause you to have less ore (wastage) was a very ill conceived plan. Please do NOT do either one of those things.
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The ability to compress moon ore was a good thing if it was treated like all other acts of compression which is to say, instant and with no loss. Please add this ability.
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The doubling of the amount of ore volume in the standard asteroid belts has zero meaning because the current amount of ore where I am at is 200m3 per asteroid. It does not make a difference if it goes to 400m3.
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The increase in range of the survey module is pointless as well as (again) no large mining fleets form in Null Sec due to the fact that a large blob of warships will just wipe them out so it does not matter if I can scan an entire ore field in one go I will still be by myself or with 2 other players chewing on an asteroid field.
Summary:
It is the consensus of Eve players that CCP has indeed made the aspect of Industry within Eve far less enjoyable or profitable as it once was. This was intentional on CCP’s part and for a decent reason as well. It has been over two years since they started to execute a plan to reduce the amount of ISK that the game generates and to increase the amount of ISK the game removes from the economy. They did this by introducing these changes to Industry as well as other tweaks that encouraged players to fight each other and have at least one ship destroyed (and thus, remove ISK from the game).
I think that two years is plenty of time and I want to see the results as well as a detailed explanation of what was done to get them. I would use that information to make a judgement call as to weather or not CCP has shown that they have my fun and entertainment at heart or if they have been making decisions counter to that. I know I’m not the boss of Eve but I do pay money to play and I’m like a lot of others that play Eve so I feel that my desires in the matter reflect what a lot of paying players want (weather they take the time to post or not).
This change is not a good change. It does not help me make ships or make the game more enjoyable.
7 Likes
I’d largely argue that it’s the consensus of the vocal players, if that makes sense.
I do see and respect the points you’ve raised here though, even if I don’t agree with them in whole.
For my own people(my alliance)… many of us(all eight+alts) are generally quite excited about the changes as they currently are, and has given us an opportunity long thought lost about three years back. I can only really speak, openly, for my own players.
That said, in other communities I’m in, I’ve seen similar excitement.
I am aware that the playerbase as a whole has many varied opinions of course. And something I’ve learned, about these forums, and r/eve, is that many don’t voice their opinions here or in the ‘obvious places’.
I hope you can understand and respect my own stance of things @ArcDragon
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I’m curious, what are you guys excited about from the changes made in this specific patch?
The quite significant buff to barges and exhumers. The doubling of our moon belt pulls, the consolidation of the resource processing skills.
As it stands, there’s much more meaningful choices in my, and my alliance’s area of play. Its no longer suicide to bring out anything other than cheap yield covetors, procurers, or skiffs. In high, or low.
The mackinaw and hulk both can now easily strike 60k+ ehp values, while still mining quite considerably.
the new Mackinaw and COVETOR now both mine at the yield of the pre-patch Hulk, and the new Hulk, even more so impressive still.
The procurer and skiff lost a great deal of utility sadly, but both still also have come out ahead in terms of potential buffer tanks.
Orca, though now requiring fuel to run, and needing to be locked in place to match previous yields, has gained significantly in the territory of self-sustain repair rate while keeping a notable buffer tank, and the cost of fuel, despite being a painpoint for some is… largely negligible, and also gained a decent but not amazing increase in boosting power.
alright… residue… this is… a particularly contentious one for many, but after mathing things out, and some extensive testing, at least in the realm and areas I play in, the residue probability is, ultimately, a non-issue as, as it stood even before, yield for given time input, has increased sharply, even before applying boosts ontop.
Taken together it is a largely positive increase in my eyes @ArcDragon .
3 Likes
Exactly, that is exactly what I’ve been saying.
Active miners who look for opportunities will find it FAR better and residue doesn’t affect them. Lazy and afk miners, especially the ones in oppressive miners like the Rorq are disadvantaged which is GOOD as they caused this whole mess in the first place with their excessive “numbers go up”.
Which means normal miners aren’t just positively effected directly but also indirectly because they will have less competition from the afk alt/bot armies.
I’m… only partially inclined to agree @Aisha_Katalen . While I do largely prefer and encourage active mining, and am a proponent of such, frankly, I don’t mind people having the options for less intensive activity.
I am pleased to see the Rorqual being toned back so that it is, in fact, properly in line with other mining vessels, instead of being the undisputed king, but do recognize and understand why some are displeased by it.
The changes are positive, largely, but not ‘good’ for all playstyles. Which, frankly, is the case of any given change. I’d appreciate you limiting the disparagement of those who have had their playstyles affected quite substantially, even if its a playstyle you don’t agree with very much.
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The point is that being lazy or afk shouldn’t grant the same rewards as being active. Activity and effort should be rewarded.
Equality of opportunity, not equality of outcome.
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Launcher won’t start at all !!!
After DT launcher updated, he worked and now wont start at all !
WTF!
Moons didn’t get doubled. I already had a pull, all rocks are just as large as they used to be before the patch, but waste means that less ore will come out of them.
Nullsec mining got a clap by the patch, as the amount of minable mercoxite was reduced, while the amount of junk (arkonor and bistot) was doubled, so more grinding for less profit.
Procs got nerfed a bit, which might make someone excited about being able to clap Procs easier then before, but the nerf isn’t all that significant I guess, as they’re still tanky and locking on them before they finish aligning never was an issue to begin with
Ice was basically removed from the game, which makes me happy because I kept quite a considerable amount of ice stockpiled, so I’ll probably get rich over this unless CCP fixes the respawns soon
The new second mid for ‘Covetor’ Mining Drones might enable them to have some utility, which has to be researched. All of the T2 Mining Drones got nice fitting capacity bonuses, making it worth to consider installing modules now rather then just leaving all the mids empty because there’s no fitting space for mods that aren’t useless, anyway, with the exception of survey scanners
I do a lot of anom and moon mining, so moving the command ship while the drones anchored on it are clearing the rocks is pretty normal to me. Therefore the more geometrically larger belts introduce nothing new
The new event might be exciting… unless it’s as buggy as the mining patch with sites not respawning
The launcher isn’t starting, or is the launcher starting but failing to start eve clients? I had the latter on multiple boxes, all of them failed to launch eve clients but became capable of doing so by quititng the launcher and restarting it.
Previous versions of the launcher would restart automatically after an update, but on this update, the launcher didn’t restart on it’s own but kept running after updating on all my boxes… I guess that’s related.
Actually, their new slow alignment, even with the update, is worse than many battleships and takes away their biggest advantage outside of high sec: the ability to get off-grid quickly. They are effectively worse now in low or null than any other barge/exumer by a long shot where a player isn’t half afk.
the proc isn’t the only mining ship available FYI… use another ship.
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Sure lol, I barely ever used Procs anyway. I was thinking that someone could be excited about now being able to clap a proc player that he wanted to clap before, but lacked the resources to do so, and that player might now be more capable to do so
I think it’s actually inferior to all battleships now, isn’t it? BS usually align in 10ish secs w/o prop mod.
In low and null a single barge miner is usually clapped either because it’s afk, because it’s sitting straight on the warp in beacon for the asteroid belt or anomaly, or because a neutral with a zkill history of bombering, blopsing and lurking was ignored being in local, which ends in the bomber neutral sneaking up and providing it’s fleetmates with a warp-in within warp scram range of the barge.
Some people might prefer to blops or to drop caps or so, but generally it’s a covops sneaking up and then allowing content to be created… in the minority of cases, just as the warp-in beacon miners are a minority too. The vast majority is the afk-ers, and in highsec even more so. No align time can save you from being tackled when you’re afk.
If you think that descisions based on what the majority want are always justified, you dont know much about the world or the things that way of decision making that causes.
Further, why this and not QCs, ECM, market fees, ganking, interceptors etc etc etc and many other things that have likewise had vocal disagreement?
Whatever makes you feel like you have some power so you keep paying that sub or buying that PLEX. Oops, did I spoiler the secret way this all works?