Can someone explain how you can compress with an Orca with the industrial core I installed ? Thanks.
I hope not. It has nothing to do with amount actually retrieved to the holds.
At best, it will be a tool to alienate corp members.
Launcher dont starting.
He updated, restarted, worked last night and in the morning⌠zero⌠dead.
CCP letters show up ⌠4 sec âŚthey disappear and⌠nothing
Louncher for eve online show up in task manager for 3 sec and then crashpad handler .exe and and thatâs it
Well youâre simply wrong about that 
Wrong in what regard? Mining Ledger was introduced to track amount of ore actually mined, as hangar transactions canât show you how many times the same rock was moved around. Adding waste information does not add anything to the purpose of the tool, but adds a point of discord between players.
It shouldnât be in the personal mining ledger either then, right?
Care to show your working?
This is not included in this update. They removed it because the consensus was the implementation was bad.
Itâs being reworked and added to the game early 2022 I think
Iâd prefer to call them CODE. crystals, but weâll have to ask @Aiko_Danuja if that would be appropriate, if we can drag her away from selling permits for the use of A and B mining crystals for double the price in half the time.
Emergent gameplay âŚ
And exactly how was the Rorq âoppresiveâ?
Donât get me wrong, I have my own reasons for thinking the Rorqual shouldnât be the default mining ship in nullsec or lowsec, but pre-patch, a ship worth 20x what a well-fitted Hulk costs that mined roughly 3x what a single hulk mined⌠that doesnât seem âoppressiveâ.
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It never did reward the same. If you AFK you are going to miss cycles, you are going to be less efficient.
Travelling from system to system to make up for the ore you lose by waste is great, but as a great goblin once (repeatedly said) in another game âTime is money friendâ
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And just to have it outlined before anyone starts acting like Iâm defending âall rorqs all the timeââŚ
Why Rorquals and Orcas Shouldnât Be The Default Mining Ships:
Ultimately, there is more to the mining landscape than the economy. Thereâs the ecosystem⌠and honestly, I think the ecosystem teamâs been focusing on the economy so much, they must think the two are the same thing. And both are complex webs of interaction, to be sure, where small pieces add up into larger moving parts. But the same thing⌠theyâre very much not.
When we look at the economy, we need to balance supply and demand. If Supply outstrips Demand, you end up with stockpiles building up that nobody can sell. If Demand far exceeds supply, then prices rise to the point where people get frustrated, and demand crashes. IRL, thereâs a floor on that for necessities. In EVE Online, that can just mean âscrew it, Iâm gonna play something else where I can actually make progressâ.
The Hulk, right now, mines in the same neighborhood as the old Rorqâs mining numbers. Not quite as good, mind you, 147m3/s max, compared to the pre-patch Rorqâs 180, but close, and certainly better than the 120m3/s that the Rorq gets now1.
So there really isnât an argument to be made for âthey were mining too muchâ, since Hulks, now, are mining basically the same amount. Only, you know with a lot more clicking. And where youâre seeing âactive gameplayâ⌠frankly, no. Active gameplay would be doing something engaging. Moving ore into the fleet hangar of the nearby Rorqual, or jetcanning it every 2 cycles, thatâs just⌠drudgework. Itâs mindless, and itâs tedious. Frankly, itâs bad gameplay. Itâs essentially copy/paste on a spreadsheet, and really, if that was fun, EVEâd be the go-to game for the accountants of the world.
And frankly, maximizing supply (as has been done w/this patch) so that prices can crash⌠thatâs not great economics, but itâs reasonable economics: either lower prices will spur rising demand, and so bring prices back up to an equilibrium point, or people will stop mining when they canât make any money.
Of course, if the people who mine in EVE because itâs an activity they can enjoy which makes money stop mining because they can no longer make money⌠some of them will stop playing. What kind of percentage? Who knows, but we clearly canât rely on CCP to accurately calculate %s, or they wouldnât have needed to kill the âEfficiencyâ column.
But thatâs the economic concerns. The reason you donât want Rorqs and Orcas as the default, most-common mining ship in their respective bailiwicks is the same reason CCP should have listened when we warned that the original Rorq changes would result in supercapital proliferation: Elephants.
Right now, the largest healthy-ish terrestrial ecosystem in the world is the African Serengeti. And the Serengeti is dominated by massive herds of herbivores⌠of prey. Gazelle, antelope, zebra, all the way up to elephants.
Now, elephants are big. Theyâre visible. And they take a long time and a lot of resources to make. African elephants gestate for 22 months. But elephants arenât the major driver of the ecosystem, and theyâre not the critter with the bigger herds. Thatâs the Wildebeest. Wildebeest gestate for roughly 8.5 months. So it takes a little less than 3x the time and effort to make an elephant than a wildebeest. But donât tell the wildebeest cows I said that. Theyâve unionized, and theyâll come after me, Iâm sure!
Wildebeest also tend to get eaten a lot. Theyâre basically the Corn Flakes of the Serengeti. If youâre a predator, you probably like gettinâ some un-roast 'beest. Lions, hyenae, wild dogs, leopards, cheetah, and crocs all live well when the herds come through. By comparison, a healthy adult African elephantâs natural predators areâŚ
Yeah, thatâs an exhaustive list, I think. Lions and hyenae might try on a sick or weakened adult, and juveniles are always tasty if you can get 'em, but a healthy adult? Even the other megafauna donât tend to mess w/them.
Thatâs basically where the Rorq should be. Rorqs should be elephants. The majority of the predators in space shouldnât really have a reasonable chance of taking a Rorq. If they can, then you should be looking at a fairly large group, one that can organize and coordinate well enough to threaten the elephant. And most of the miners out there should be subcaps. But hereâs the thing:
Elephants and Wildebeest both walk everywhere. If elephants could just teleport around, the wildebeest would all be dead. Thereâd be nothing for them to eat, because the elephants would get all the good stuff.
Now, remove the ability for Rorqs to jump⌠and youâll basically kill mining in null and the more dangerous bits of low. Because nobodyâs pushing mining fleets through gates in any numbers without an escort group, and nobodyâs going to devote hours to just escorting the miners around. Not more than 2-3 times, tops. Theyâll get pissed off about wasting their time babysitting, and theyâll stop.
Thatâs not conjecture, either, itâs something weâve seen in operation. Weâve had that exact situation develop w/escort fleets even when jump drives were involved. Make it gates, and they just burn out on the boredom even faster, because it takes longer to get there, and longer to get back.
Really, if CCP wants really widespread adoption of subcap miners in null, they need the industrial portal generator. Preferably with the conduit jump, just to make things easier to get there and get home when youâre done.
And all of the people whining about âminers will be impossible to catchâ⌠yeah, theyâre idiots. As I said above: Rorqs wonât be sitting out there among the rocks, giving crappy short-range boosts and not making any money to speak of. Theyâll be sieged, and if the indy coreâs active, donât let the jump portal activate.
And anyone saying âoh, the bridging rorqs will be tethered, and the miners can just warp overâ, well, if the miners could just warp over to the tethered rorq, they obviously could just warp over to the structure itâs tethered on. So the lack of mobility in getting to/from the moons isnât helping the hunters in that scenario, is it?
And letâs also keep in mind that the voices saying âthe conduit jump would make miners impossible to catchâ were the same batch of voices saying âBlackout will make it easy to catch minersâ. It didnât. And thereâs a pretty simple way to understand why their expectations are exactly wrong:
Miners get caught when theyâre lazy. The more your PvErs have the illusion of safety, the lazier theyâll be, and the sloppier theyâll get. And thatâs when theyâll die. Miners who feel vulnerable stay alert. They work in groups that can say âhey, neut reported 2 jumps out in intelâ. Theyâre on comms where they can learn the same things. Theyâre not getting lazy and vulnerable. Just ask the Jaguar pilot who tried to snipe some excavs in Delve earlier today, and got a face full of sentries and warrior IIs. One more tick, and they wouldnât have warped out in time.
Predators want their prey fat and lazy, not alert and paranoid. But you know, thatâs an issue of ecosystem⌠not economics.
1. Of course, if youâre willing to burn through ore with residue, the Rorqâs still definitely the better option for nullsec: itâs got the mobility the hulk lacks. Not only does it have a stupidly-good tank (2.4 million EHP while repping 31k dps before you PANIC for 6 minutes and rebuild your full shield amount to make them burn through it again while the defense fleet arrives), but it can, you know, jump out.
Oh, and thatâs not in response to a threat. After all, Rorqs in ore belts of any kind arenât just sitting there out of siege, core down, giving short-range, weak-ass boosts. Even now, theyâre actively mining. No, the grand utility of being able to jump is⌠well, when you fill up, you just bounce back out to staging, drop off your ore, and bounce back. Simple and effective. Sure, itâll cost you some fuel, but itâs going to cost you fuel to get a jump-capable haulerâor a titan to bridge freighters aroundâout to where you were mining to pick up the ore. So the fuelâs irrelevant. And letâs face it, between the cargo, fleet hangar, and mining hold, a Rorq, even without cargo expanders, hauls more ore than a JF. All that utility, you know?
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So much backtracking and âlol no, reallyâ. Try all you want, thereâs a good reason why rorqs got nerfed repeatedly and are now where they are.
Thereâs no backtracking there whatsoever. Please, demonstrate it.
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It is not a sharp increase when you put more Tankmodules in the lows to get higher ehp. You just sacrifice yield for tank thats it.
The Skiff is on par with what it was and needs better skills to achieve the same tank as before since it became harder to fit it.
The only boost it got was basically the changes to T2, overall its still a slight nerf.
Wait. I have waste residue with Type A crystals too. The base amount of T2 strip miner.
Iâm an idiot and not a miner.
But even then, you still get more, and faster 
So, worst case with our trusted Modulated Strip Miner II and using a B-II crystal we have 34% + 30% (from tool and crystal respectively) = 64% waste. Correct ? Which means we still get 136 out of the new roid compared to 100 before the patch, because of double size and because of waste. And faster.
Considering that, my current mackinaw and Hulk fits still run at least two MLUâs, only giving up one low for a DCU II, and still are striking the 60k ehp marker with a very sharp increase in yield compared to previous, Iâd have to disagree Rogal.
The Procurer and Skiff are, base, slightly ahead of their previous mining capabilities, but really canât fit MLUs if they want to have their previously exceptional tank alongside modulated strip miners. That said, a Procurer hitting 82k ehp with t2 rigs, and 74k ehp with t1 rigs, Iâd call sharply ahead of its pre-patch capability. Skiffâs tank is marginally better than its pre-patch incarnation, with my current fitting hitting 125k ehp, but, its more economical to hit that as I can do that with a t2/meta fitting now instead or needing a set of faction modules.
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what are your fits? Mack and Hulk ?
Current hulk fit, the mackninaw fitting is essentially identical. Not unkillable by any stretch, but requiring some work to try to gank in highsec compared to previous.
[Hulk, *Simulated Hulk Fitting]
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Mining Laser Upgrade II
Damage Control II
Large F-S9 Regolith Compact Shield Extender
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Multispectrum Shield Hardener II
Survey Scanner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Modulated Strip Miner II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
Medium Core Defense Field Extender II
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