To each their own I guess. In the future I’ll refrain from having respectful discussions with you and take a page from Tyrel. Sarcasm and trolling it is… My respect for you and your opinions is obviously unappreciated.
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Don’t feel too bad. I think everyone ends up there after awhile. Even poking Midget for the evil glee of doing so gets old.
My respect for your efforts, though. And I mean that.
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Well, it’s not like we haven’t had good discussions in the past, at least in my eyes. But hey, trying to offer a respectful conversation on a topic brought up is, well whatever…
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Then, one could say it wasn’t wasted effort til today. Even now, I’d call it a win if you feel it so.
Cold Wind carries wisdom
The rock, it does not hear
Wind ascends
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Well said, and ya its a win. It’s more less that loop thing Seo mentioned, or I should say my own interpretation of it. Who doesn’t have a loop attached to their arguments? I certainly do, it’s why “agree to disagree” is a thing. No one can speak to anyone else’s experiences and that same unique experience is what forms the opinions that connect that loop of why we would argue for anything in the first place. I enjoy trying to understand other perspectives, though it’s really battling the tide for the most part.
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Dear trolls, read carefully the name of the discussion and the initial message. Now, if you are unable to contribute anything on the subject, be so kind to leave and find yourself a different thread. Better - outside of IGS.
Thanks in advance.
Read what I quoted.
Thanks in advance.
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This is ironic coming from the master thread derailer. 
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Proof seems legitimate…
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Wow, a bunch of thread derailers came to derail the thread, blaming me in derailing.
Now if only they were as bold coming to me in space or at least on stations, but no… these enemies of the State are that shallow - able only to blame others in what they are doing themselves.
Well at least they’re fighting against the actual alien invasion of the State that’s going on. Haven’t seen you there.
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I am fighting against alien invasion of the State every day, didn’t see them or you seeing them either. Keep barking.
People are interesting. Their perspectives, more so, to be sure. Everyone has their loop, hierarchy, or party line. What interests me, in turn, are the times where one feels their loop fading out, just a little, and you get a brief look at what’s under it.
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It still baffles me, so thoroughly, just how scatter-minded the other factions are. Captain Kim had a simple request so she could formally question someone, from my understanding, was spreading negative information about her. A simple task, that would have been completely in hours, within the State.
Yet others come in and make such a spectacle. Bringing in arguments about so many other situation, that are irrelevant to the request. It has become more chaotic than a Gallente, interpretive dance, ensamble.
I would agree with the good Captain, that this Mr. Raholan should come forth and recant what he said or provide evidence for his claims. Until he does so, these remarks should be seen as the falsehoods they most certainly seem to be.
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I am born a holder of Amarr myself, a proud apostate of my flawed people and their flawed beliefs.
I know how so called reclamation justifies the heinous, immoral treatment of the enslaved populace, turning man into cattle and cogs to feed the self-proclaimed worthy chosen.
I saw many Minmatars and other races are kept under leashes, vitoc and terror, and I could not remain under the accursed system of my people where such horrors are inflicted upon them.
It is not just the empire and its offshoots, the Angel Cartel force the innocents and the weak into slavery while Serpentis force them to harvest dangerous materials for their products.
As of Sansha and their lobotomites, allow me to save their mentions until later.
If so, how exactly is freedom evil as you said where there are people suffering under the hands of the despots and tyrants who consider them beneath human?
I am waiting on your answer on this one.
As of democracy, yes I can understand that democracy can lead to mob rule while it denies the opinions of the lesser supported, after all I had to learn of it from its foundations as an Amarrian, foreign to the idea itself.
However the truth is, democracy is a system based on debate of ideas, each ideas whether progressive or not, are expected to speak out their opinions, eagerly compare that thoughts with others and gain support from the masses by doing so.
If the democratic vote have indeed snuffed out the opinions of the minor ideas, the lesser supported simply failed to represent themselves effectively, or in rare cases the masses see the flaws within their arguments which may jeopardize their current interests.
However democracy itself is a system that places all rights and decisions to the citizens, which also gives them responsibility that follows.
If the nation fails due to the foolish choice of the citizens, the nation crumbles and the responsibility lies to the people, that is all.
However, denying the people of choice altogether will mean denial of their humanity, their right to choose their own path.
If you really desire to see the end result of a system that abandons all freedoms for single pursuit of progress, I encourage you to look upon the Sansha miscreants and ponder why even the Caldari and Amarr resist against their ever continuing incursions.
I do not believe democracy is the most ideal system, I simply beleive it is the most acceptible.
That is enough for ideology as well, so allow me to speak my main point.
I simply do not follow the federation.
I do follow the idealism of individual liberty and I do believe that Gallentean beliefs of four freedoms hold true, yet I can assure you I do not support the federation itself.
Is it as you said, the Gallente are known for their rather extreme measures and definite arrogance based on their self belief of being defenders of liberty.
However in the end Gallente is ruled by interests of the wealthy and the decadent, the regular citizens are constantly subjected upon consumerism-fueled interests which in the end replaces their own ideals with the ones akin with moguls.
Some are even brutally tortured by non-legal means by such moguls themselves.
However, there are those who remember what their nation is founded upon and speak out against their own nation’s atrocities, forcing their leaders to be afraid of their own people.
That why I prefer them over your state, your state does not consider those who dissent against their leaders to be even human.
How about Minmatar?
Despite Minmatar being my oath-sworn allies, I am aware that even they are capable of atrocities such as ostracism based on outcomes of Voluval rituals.
However the reason I support their people, not their nation, is because they still deserve justice on what they have suffered.
Some claim Minmatars have resorted themselves into path of crime and piracy post emancipation and should not have been liberated in the first place.
That is because such despots themselves forced them to resort into life of crime by denying them any other option than such.
Some major tribes have natural talent of engineering and others, but even among them those with lesser talents exist and without their talent they are simply less valued in midst of their cruel bondage, denying them to even improving themselves.
So in the end if anyone accuse Minmatar being race of criminals, they are mere hypocrites unaware of who is the true cause of such unfortunate state.
As you see, I do not support any of the four empires in its fullest.
I may support ideology of freedom also endorsed by the Gallente and also I may support Minmatar friends for I believe they deserve freedom.
My loyalty, however, does not belong to any of them.
My loyalty belongs to the idea of liberty alone.
So please continue with your response on what I stated and my question that will follow immediately below.
What makes me a “Gallentean Sockpuppet” considering what I have stated?
Also, if this is a “Intergalactic Summit,” not a “Caldarian State Governing Seminar” in what authority do you urge for my defeat?
I will await your challenge.
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50 mill? Turns around and shoots some rats instead.
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If that’s the case, why did she come to indie capsuleers with it?
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I must humbly suggest that perhaps Capsuleer Kim desires publicity in her endeavors.
And I see those who are actually willing to carry out the task are…in negligible numbers.
If they do appear, I will settle this in the sea of stars.
…
…
It is an honor to converse with you venerable one.
The deeds of the roughriders are well known to me, and it is deeply appreciated.
I hope we can meet each other among the stellar oceans, perhaps we can even cooperate.
Hail to thee fellow freedom fighter.
And may the Matari forgive me for my heritage.
I cannot teach an Amarr how to be Amarr, so I won’t argue with you on that.
I can only tell that according to my feeling, slavery in the Empire is same as imprisonment of criminals in the State, or an institution of public schools, thus Amarr speaking against slavery sounds a bit awkward to my ears. In any way, it’s for you to decide with Theology Council if it is heretical or not, that’s really not my business, so… you do you.
Oh, that’s quite simple.
But before I answer the question of the evils of freedom, let us accent first on the question of tyrants.
First of all, tyrant is just a ruler, a manager. If someone is suffering under a rule of a tyrant, it is a bad tyrant. Under good tyrant’s rule nobody will suffer. Thus claims about tyrants considering someone beneath human is incorrect in general, if not a straightforward lie.
Now, back to the question of the evils of freedom.
How exactly do you become free? I think the answer lies in propaganda of freedom fanatics, who often draw posters of “breaking chains”. And that’s basically it - to become free you need to separate bonds. The more bonds you have, the less free you are, and you become absolutely free when you separate all of them. We know in physics, that bonds are keeping molecules and atoms together, and if you remove them, everything falls apart. But we are talking about human interactions, not physics. So what bonds are in human interactions?..
For example, marriage. Well, it can be funny, when a freshly divorced spouse will proclaim “Finally free!” But it’s not a complete freedom, because there are way more bonds which we cherish. Loyalty, friendship, law, morals, obligations, even love - these are all our “chains”. Do you see now how freedom is evil? Those, who want this freedom want to act just on their own behalf disregarding all these bonds. Utterly selfish and destructive for any society! And this ultimate selfishness is what I consider ultimate evil. The desire for freedom is intrinsic for criminal elements that detest laws and morals.
But even worse are freedom cultists and fanatics, who not just fight for their own freedom, but enforce others into freedom. They don’t construct anything, they don’t protect anyone, they only kill and destroy for the sake of their ideal, damaging property, lives and social order.
It’s quite foolish, on the other hand, to let the system to be run by cooks and janitors. Only merited ones shall participate in the management and organization.
How can you live in a society where a voice of a scientist will be equal to a voice of a janitor, scrapping all day armor plate of your ship from fedo poop? Would you like to be run by such a decision-making team, or will prefer a professional, well-educated and prepared for the management task leaders?
Moreover, as you have said yourself, it’s a system based on debate of ideas. That’s what makes it utterly inefficient - it’s a waste of time, making it one of the worst management options available. And as you have said yourself, ideas can be progressive or not - and with amount of general unprepared for decision folk participating in such discussions amount of ideas taken will be about equal, if not straightforward leaning towards less progressive ideas. Cmon, we all know that it’s in human nature to cling to the past and most progressive ideas will be just dumped.
On the other hand, when you have a single ruler, he will make decisions fast. He again can apply same progressive or not ideas. But he will have the power to push the progress without sinking in the swamp of other voters, who will try to hold him. Of course, ruler also can be not very efficient himself and stick to non-progressive ideas, but unlike democracy this is way less likely to happen, because the leader to take the leadership position will have to show quite a lot of merit to climb on the very top from the very bottom and act progressively to “outrun” his contestants. Well, that’s how it works in the State since we removed nepotism.
But even in nepotism-based societies, proper leadership is better than democracy. The leaders or aristocrats in such societies don’t have to climb the corporate ladders - they take positions by the merit of their birth. There is a good side in this as well - their whole life from their birth they will be taught and prepared to take that position, so eventually they will be the best personnel for that job. Minus the question of personal qualities which cannot be changed. That’s again why we stick to the meritocracy instead of the aristocracy.
You see such backward ideals you were talking about are alien in civilized worlds, that’s why I’ve assumed you’re a “Gallente sockpuppet” - it means, you’re speaking their words.
I’ve been searching for you to have a private talk just because of your sudden and unprovoked hostile action, which I expect from gallente - even while we didn’t have introduced ourselves to each other in local or any media prior to that and I wanted to investigate this behavior thoroughly, no more, no less.
But since you’re here already and talking, there’s no need in that anymore.
As for the challenge, I am capable on way more than just talking myself, and whether you will decide to act on your choice you made prior me setting this thread, I am at your service, would it be in space in my combat-able ship, or in station, armed with guns or a sword.